The decline in CHR/Mainstream...

Zak Tyler · Post by **Zak Tyler** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:59 am

ok, something just hit me today as i was looking at the phase 1 trends for DC and Baltimore today. Hot (WIHT) is the ONLY CHR/M in both markets.... carrying a 4 share in DC (up from a 3.8, wonder if that booby brown stunt helped with that) and they've got a 1.6 in Baltimore....

is CHR/M in a horrific down cycle? thoughts on the cause? music? management? labels? buzz?

is it just in the heavy urban metro's???

or is it just waiting for the now 10-14 year old rockin out to radio disney and other disney channel artists to come of age and morph into a college age radio disney in 5 years???

what are your thoughts?

AmpedNow · Post by **AmpedNow** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:16 am

The fact that Hot has a 4 share in a market loaded with urban competition (PGC, KYS, El Zol) speaks volumes... They've done a heck of a job.

Baltimore has no true CHR. That 1.6 is screaming "format hole". But none of the radio groups will flip because doing so would cannibalize their other stations that are doing well.

As for the CHR format, it's sounded better to me the last year or so than it has the previous few. The heavy pop sound seems to be slowly returning again, like it was in the late 90's. From about 2002 until about last summer, CHR was heavy on hip-hop, which made it harder for me to listen to for any length of time. But now I can listen for 1-2 hours straight, until the rotations kick in.

Then again, since I'm 33 I'm an old fart as far as CHR is concerned... But I still like it.

And no, I'm not gay...

Bob Loblaw · Post by **Bob Loblaw** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:56 am

"Baltimore doesn't have a CHR" is a very old excuse. I'd highly suggest giving a listen to Mix 1065. I'd pull a Top 10 from Mediabase if I was at work. They've become a very good Adult CHR. Too bad they don't get any credit for it because of their lame ass presence in the market.

Also, I'm not sure how Hot having an uptrend is a signal of a down cycle in CHR? CHRs, traditionally right now, are doing very well. Better than they have in years.

Zak Tyler · Post by **Zak Tyler** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:26 am

Bob Loblaw wrote:"Baltimore doesn't have a CHR" is a very old excuse. I'd highly suggest giving a listen to Mix 1065. I'd pull a Top 10 from Mediabase if I was at work. They've become a very good Adult CHR. Too bad they don't get any credit for it because of their lame ass presence in the market.

Also, I'm not sure how Hot having an uptrend is a signal of a down cycle in CHR? CHRs, traditionally right now, are doing very well. Better than they have in years.

not saying that your upturn is the sign of a format downturn, just looking at total format share in markets across the country there's been a loss... no longer are there 2 and 3 chr's in a market battling it out with 3 and 4 shares, it's just 1 with a 4 share... naw meen?

personally, i'm kinda hoping this country phase (most of the country is in) will wear out soon... no offense to any banjo station employees

Bob Campbell · Post by **Bob Campbell** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:19 am

just tossin' a thought.

How about the fact that CHR is the most difficult format to do well and with the dearth of talent on air and in the pd's office the format suffers.

Bob Loblaw · Post by **Bob Loblaw** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:59 am

I'd chaulk it up to CHR not being a "Money Demo" format.

Ace Purple · Post by **Ace Purple** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:21 am

Bob Campbell wrote:How about the fact that CHR is the most difficult format to do well

I thought that AAA was the hardest format to do well.

Bob Loblaw · Post by **Bob Loblaw** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:05 am

Ace Purple wrote:
Bob Campbell wrote:How about the fact that CHR is the most difficult format to do well
I thought that AAA was the hardest format to do well.

(insert format here) is the hardest format to do well.

[/well being the operative word]

Dave Allen · Post by **Dave Allen** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:42 am

Why not just hire these guys from Wheeling to program everything? They are all programming geniuses from what I hear.

Hoosier Daddy · Post by **Hoosier Daddy** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:03 am

daveinthemorning wrote:Why not just hire these guys from Wheeling to program everything? They are all programming geniuses from what I hear.

Well ... then you'd have to be Dave the Taint and Erin would be Bloomgirlie.

Can you just feel the ratings going through the roof ...

Bob Campbell · Post by **Bob Campbell** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:38 am

When I talk about CHR being the most difficult to do, I'm really speaking from a jock's standpoint.
CHR has the most constraints yet demands the most creativity. i.e. you have a 9 second intro,you want to get a phoner on, hit your punchline, id the artist and hit the post.

High energy, intense editing, learning to say the same thing different ways (in Boston we talked between EVERY song).
I've personally found it much easier to do Rock formats from a technical execution format.

I always likened doing high energy CHR to flying an F-16 while the other guys were in a blimp.

And of course AAA is tough. To do a format specifically to avoid listeners is not easy.

Arp2 · Post by **Arp2** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:54 pm

Zak Tyler wrote:personally, i'm kinda hoping this country phase (most of the country is in) will wear out soon...

I think all the talk about another country boom is over-....over-.....shoot, what's the word? Um, "exagerated," maybe? Shoot. Stupid brain. Anyway, there's a rebirth and transition going on, but I'm not sure it's having the success in bringing in as many new folks this time.

If anything, aside from the various Spanish formats, where appropriate, I think the boom is in Smooth Jazz, but I think one of the reasons for that won't be able to be sustained....so....

Bob Campbell wrote:And of course AAA is tough. To do a format specifically to avoid listeners is not easy.

There was a time when I thought AAA was truly the future, destined to be as big or even bigger than the Rock AC hybrid of WMMO, which, for whatever reason, just didn't seem capable of being duplicated.

In a way, I still do....

Reality, however, keeps proving me wrong....

kentuckymedia · Post by **kentuckymedia** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:46 pm

We just had a group discussion on this topic. While our company has a lot of Hot AC's, we dont have very many CHR's. At the time turing our last buying spree I was Vice President of Rock Formats, so I had no say, but now since I oversee contemporary formats...i have to be a little more involved.

CHR is in severe need of defining itself. While heritage CHR's tend to still do well, the new brand of CHR leans either Rhythmic or Adult...there really is no more inbetweens anymore. More and More artists are releasing songs on the Adult side, and the Rhythmic artists are focusing on keeping their newer cuts on the Urban lean.

Its simply another Kingston cycle. The only format to do this every 10 years, oh joy! For 3 or 4 years...the format will tend to lean older and more mature and then for a couple years mellow out with pop acts and then move back into the rhythmic side and then the cycle will start over again.

Dave Allen · Post by **Dave Allen** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:53 pm

Well, I just heard Nunley say "bitch", "ass" and "hell", all in a 10 minute span. That's the future, man.

Bob Campbell · Post by **Bob Campbell** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:25 pm

You know I think the thing about AAA is that it's just too hip for the room. There are some great songs and artists but mass appeal is what they are not.

Dave Allen · Post by **Dave Allen** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:34 pm

That's the way I feel about the alternative country sound coming out of Austin right now. Some really great stuff but unless you want to take time to find it on the internet or to listen to 'X Country" on XM chances are you won't hear it.

Jay Nunley · Post by **Jay Nunley** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:21 am

daveinthemorning wrote:Well, I just heard Nunley say "bitch", "ass" and "hell", all in a 10 minute span. That's the future, man.

There's no way you heard all of that in a ten minute span. I'm sure that would have only taken one sentence to get done.

fearpeddler · Post by **fearpeddler** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:28 am

Jay Nunley wrote:
daveinthemorning wrote:Well, I just heard Nunley say "bitch", "ass" and "hell", all in a 10 minute span. That's the future, man.
There's no way you heard all of that in a ten minute span. I'm sure that would have only taken one sentence to get done.

I bet it wouldnt even take a full sentence

Ace Purple · Post by **Ace Purple** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:37 am

Bob Campbell wrote:You know I think the thing about AAA is that it's just too hip for the room. There are some great songs and artists but mass appeal is what they are not.

I love AAA, but it faces the obstacle of not playing enough known/hit songs to appeal to the masses. Lightning 100 here in Nashville does the format as well as I've ever heard it (yet another reason I enjoy being back here), but it doesn't do much in the 12+ numbers (though it is on a weak signal.)

kentuckymedia wrote:CHR is in severe need of defining itself. While heritage CHR's tend to still do well, the new brand of CHR leans either Rhythmic or Adult...there really is no more inbetweens anymore.

Sirius Hits 1 does it well, but it has much more latitude than most CHRs as far as variety of music goes.

I'm sure that it can be a delicate balancing act fitting a CHR into a cluster situation, but there are some groups that manage to do it well. Here in Nashville, Clear Channel has a nice setup, as WRVW (107.5 the River) is an Adult CHR that compliments Hip Hop WUBT (101.1 The Beat) on covering the pop/hip-hop new music scene.

Bob Campbell · Post by **Bob Campbell** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:59 am

The thing about great CHRs is they were always multi-demographic. Start with a morning show that appeals to 25-54s, heavily daypart the music during midday to make it easy to listen to at work, spread it out after 3 pm, turn it loose at night with a great night jock. Promote like a bitch, be super visible.
I don't think you'll find any top CHR morning show that isn't hosted by somebody not specifically in the target demo (I'm sure there's some). Here in G'boro you have Murphy, who is about 400 hundred years old. Charlotte has Ace and TJ who are both older guys. etc.