I ain't that dainty.

[Arp2]

Somebody wrote;
Yet 30 years ago we were COOLING down. Explain that.

Easy. Not true. Short term variation does not alter a long term trend.

Exactly. Really learn that by applying it to your current brainwashing.

[The People's DJ]

Somebody wrote;
Yet 30 years ago we were COOLING down. Explain that.

Easy. Not true. Short term variation does not alter a long term trend.

WOW! So I guess Newsweek was fooled into making it a issue. Front cover.

Let me ask you something. Is it the United States fault? Cause there is a report out stating that China will out produce the US in greenhouse gasses this year. But to all the enviromental people the US is to blame. Oh and by the way :

China is a signatory to the Kyoto Protocol on reducing greenhouse gasses, but is exempt from its restrictions because it is a developing country.

[Bob Loblaw]

Also, something I really enjoy -- and I'm serious about this, too -- is putting biodegradable trash inside non-biodegradable trash. And, then, that non-biodegradable trash inside other non-biodegradable trash. Heh heh heh....

But why?

I know you don't think that it's even remotely possible that you're wrong on the matter, but it sure seems like you're being a dick just because you can.


[/period of time where rulers thought Earth was flat...and the sun revolved around the Earth]

[Bob Campbell]

How exactly does it hurt you to respect the earth and leave it a better place for your kids? (Guessing PDJ and Arp have none.)
How does recycling hurt you?
How does reducing pollution hurt you?
Why does it matter whose fault pollution is?
What's wrong with leading the world reduce emissions? How is that bad?
How can it hurt to pursue alternative, non-polluting energy sources?

[SPIKE NESMITH!]

I want to do the right thing, I really do. Mrs Spike and I were very keen on buying a hybrid car, but they were all too expensive.

I used to recycle my alumin(i)um cans until the Charleston waste management people got all snobby and insisted they be wrapped up in clear plastic bags, where before they were just dumped loose into a green bin. But I'm a lazy man. Now it's just too much of a pain in the arse to make sure I have the right bags and to gather them all up, so I don't do it anymore. Besides, isn't it enviromentally UNfriendly to insist people use more non-biodegradable PLASTIC bags than they did before...?

[The People's DJ]

Global *climate change* is real, because the climate has *always* been changing. We only have to recall the quaint cliff dwellings that the Anasazi peoples abandoned in the American southwest because the climate grew too cold to support a culture based on farming. We can look up why Greenland has that name, were Erik the Red settled that island almost 1000 years ago, when the climate was warm enough to allow ranching and growing crops. We can then look up 1816, known in Europe as the Year Without a Summer to know that climate changes, sometimes for warmer and sometimes for much colder.

The present passing fashion commonly called Global Warming is obvious far more about ideology, increasing the power of government, and decreasing personal liberty than it is about climate change. One of the signals is that the greatest polluters and emitters of CO2, China and India have been given a pass, and the US in particular is the target of all the scolding and fretting.

[Arp2]

Also, something I really enjoy -- and I'm serious about this, too -- is putting biodegradable trash inside non-biodegradable trash. And, then, that non-biodegradable trash inside other non-biodegradable trash. Heh heh heh....

But why?

To be able to tell the story!

That's largely true, but I mainly enjoy having it available to use as an intentional affront and to challenge basic beliefs.

I know you don't think that it's even remotely possible that you're wrong on the matter,...

True....I never come to a conclusion quickly or lightly....

...but it sure seems like you're being a dick just because you can.

To an extent, yes.

But note that you say "a dick." Saying that means you've come to the conclusion that that action has some negative meaning. I don't know what you base that on, but, after a reasonable amount of research and discussion, I've come to the conclusion that that action is inconsequential and irrelevant.

Your belief includes a number of assumptions, including the assumption that biodegrading takes place from the outside in. Why is the idea that I might be "helping" it by doing something from the inside out not coming to your mind? I'm adding a breaking-down force to the inside...my thinking is twice as good as the kook environmentalists' thinking!

Now, frankly, I have no idea if that's 100% true and valid or not...I don't really care. What I do know to be 100% true is that that idea is just as logical or even more logical than what you hear. I say it's even more.

Here's still more -- I'll suggest that most non-biodegradable objects are much more likely to be rigid solids than are biodegradable materials. If the rigid solids are going to take much longer to break down and are going to be there for a while no matter what, doesn't it save space in landfills to put the less rigid, more flexible items inside the more rigid items? And doesn't that help keep the "greenhouse gasses" (that term contains wrong assumptions, too) produced by landfills better contained??

Again, my arguments are just as or more logical than the others you hear. G'ahead....think about 'em.

And then realize this -- from the standpoint of a movement leader, no matter which way you want to go and no matter what you want people to do or believe, you can make a good-sounding argument if you just try a little. Nobody'll have any idea if it's true or not....they'll just hear it, think "I suppose that makes some sense," hear it again, hear it again, eventually just assume it's true, and repeat the "I suppose that makes some sense" arguments if the subject ever comes up because they think it makes them sound intelligent (I know you've seen that come back in research!). In the meantime, the one who started it all has you marching behind him or her whether you realize it or not.

When you were in grade school, all "the evidence" "showed" the globe was rapidly cooling and another ice age was imminent "unless we did something about it;" when you were in high school, all "the evidence" "showed" the oceans were going to dry up "unless we did something about it;" now, all "the evidence" "shows" the exact opposite of both of those -- we're going to burn up, and the oceans are going to get bigger than ever -- "unless we do something about it!" Every 15-20 years, we see that "they" were lying, and we see "them" invent something new and start all over again, hoping for a new batch of...er, uh, believers.

The truth -- the science on all this stuff is not in and won't be for at least a couple hundred years, and the debate is nowhere near over; what we do know for sure, though, is that all the people who keep saying those lines over and over and who are wanting you to believe it have their professional, political, financial, and/or spiritual futures completely bet on you believing that it is.

The bottom line is this: for any of a number of selfish or misguided reasons, these people are wanting to distract you from the things in life that really matter and gain mental and physical power over you at the same time; don't let them do it.

[/period of time where rulers thought Earth was flat...and the sun revolved around the Earth]

So-called "scientists" believed that, too, because they couldn't or wouldn't keep their false assumptions out of the process. It was the man who accurately recognized his smallness and refused to think what he was being told to think who said, "eh, I'm not worried," and went on to prove them all wrong.

And that guy dumped his garbage and poop in the ocean all along the way.

[Big Media]

keen...... arse.......

You tadpoles sure are funny folk.

Besides, isn't it enviromentally UNfriendly to insist people use more non-biodegradable PLASTIC bags than they did before...?

Excellent point.

[Arp2]

I want to do the right thing, I really do. Mrs Spike and I were very keen on buying a hybrid car, but they were all too expensive.

That seems to contain an assumption that driving a hybrid is "the right thing." Well, hybrids don't last as long, so you'll need to consume more of them over time and put each old one into a landfill. Resale values will be relatively low. Oh, and the hybrid batteries are chemical environmental disasters waiting to happen...literally ticking timebombs in landfills all over.

So what's "the right thing?" Gasoline-powered automobiles with long expected lives. What might or might not come out of the tailpipe is much more managable than what will come out of the battery!

I used to recycle my alumin(i)um cans until the Charleston waste management people got all snobby and insisted they be wrapped up in clear plastic bags, where before they were just dumped loose into a green bin. But I'm a lazy man. Now it's just too much of a pain in the arse to make sure I have the right bags and to gather them all up, so I don't do it anymore. Besides, isn't it enviromentally UNfriendly to insist people use more non-biodegradable PLASTIC bags than they did before...?

I was helping a friend take out her trash. "Ok, those need to go there, and those need to go in that container, and those need to go in paper bags and then into the container, and those need to go in plastic bags and then into the container, and those need to have twine tied around them and then be put in the container,...."

"What??????!!!!?????"

"That's what they say. It's recycling. I have a paper they sent out on it somehwere...."

"Recycling? They're going to sell these things and make money on your stuff, and they're making you do all the work? How much are they paying you after forcing you to do their work...?"

"Actually, it costs more...."



"More???? They should be paying you! What a scam!! Hey, can I have you come over and do work for me and then have you pay me for it?!!? I've got all kinds of things you could do.....with this kind of deal, you can do it all!"

"You think you're funny. That's not funny."

"No, you're right....it's not!! When are you going to cancel this nonsense?"

"I'll take it out, myself."

"Naw, I'll carry it out. Just throw all the 'recyclable' stuff in the container...all together....they're selling it, make them do the work."

"You're supposed to separate it...that's what they said on the sheet."

"Oooooooooo....'they' said it on a sheet! It was on...a sheet! Well, if it's in print, you must obey...(booming voice) the sheet compels you!!"

"I'll take it out, myself...after you're gone."

"Ok...."

[SPIKE NESMITH!]

True - isn't there fairly good evidence to prove that reclycling actually has the potential to do *more* harm as most places have a whole other pickup truck for recyclables, thus putting another heavy duty vehicle on the roads...? I might have to go look that up somewhere.

We can then look up 1816, known in Europe as the Year Without a Summer to know that climate changes, sometimes for warmer and sometimes for much colder.

Ha - that's EVERY year in Scotland - unless you count slightly warmer rain as a change of season...

That seems to contain an assumption that driving a hybrid is "the right thing." Well, hybrids don't last as long, so you'll need to consume more of them over time and put each old one into a landfill. Resale values will be relatively low. Oh, and the hybrid batteries are chemical environmental disasters waiting to happen...literally ticking timebombs in landfills all over.

You're right - I should have clarified. "Right" as in "they don't use as much gas and that's right for my ever-shrinking budget". I had never heard that hybrids didn't last as long, nor did I know that the batteries were potentially hazardous. Where did you read that? Resale value's not a big deal for me. I know car places are out to dick me over and will give me bottom dollar for a trade-in anyway, so I tend to drive a car until it's entirely undriveable. Besides, my last gas powered car lasted about as long as the payments. It was a Ford. Never again.

....literally ticking?

[Bob Campbell]

Lots of fun comments, still no scientific evidence from anybody except the people who whine about global warming. Still no reasons NOT to act like global warming is real even if it weren't.

Don't think hybrids have been around long enough to say whether they last as long as regular gasoline cars or not. Either way the best mileage is what's really important, no matter what kind of engine you have.

Recycling here is quite easy. They give us one box (free) everything goes in it, put it on the curb with regular trash. Don't have to bag or tie anything.

Question, what proof would you doubters accept for human caused global warming? Or is it not really about the facts for you guys at all?

[fearpeddler]

my list of throw-ins since i really dont wanna join in on this too deeply....

1.) ALL batteries are environmental disasters waiting to happen... so thats not gonna sway me from any hybrid...

2.) How come nobody is pointing their fingers at china.... their industry there has cranked out more emissions in the last year than all the cars in LA did during the 90's...

3.) I remember reading a little paper we got weekly in junior high that had a story about a Professor from Virginia Tech that had modified a BMW to run on Hempseed oil... produced literally less than 1% of the emissions that its gas drinking siblings made and got about 10 miles more to the gallon.....

[Zak Tyler]

....literally ticking?

sounds like the lifters...
*remember i don't know shit about cars*
[/just sayin']

Question, what proof would you doubters accept for human caused global warming? Or is it not really about the facts for you guys at all?

aren't there differing/proven scientific theory??? all it comes to now is which scientist do you believe? and who's paying their salary?

[Arp2]

...denying global warming is sort of like denying evolution.

Exactly...and it makes you far more accurate, too.

I personally know multiple scientists/engineers (that was my college major, you know) who just laugh at how easy it is to utterly disprove both. The underlying assumptions of each are seriously, seriously just that -- laughable.

The problem with many, many scientists today is that they completely eschew scientific method and the scientific model; instead of coming at a problem with a real blank slate, most come with a pre-bias of "the answer cannot be this, so we'll look for anything but that no matter where the evidence actually leads."

I mean, you bring up evolution. Evolution -- a "theory" -- violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Anyone who knows the scientific method knows that, the moment a hypothesis or theory is shown to violate a known law, that hypothesis or theory is immediately declared invalid and thrown out. Yet, "evolution" is given some sort of special treatment, and additional "hypotheses" and "theories" are built upon it; in the scientific method, that is an absolute no-no! The only reason this happens and continues is that many "scientists" approach the issues completely without the aforementioned "real blank slate;" the alternative to evolution is completely unacceptable to them, so they look for anything and everything else no matter what the evidence actually shows.

One of these scientists/engineers I know....he tells one of the funniest stories I've ever heard. Just smart and quick as can be (and, now, recognized as one of the tops of his field and one of only a couple hundred in the world with a particular high accreditation), tests were never particularly taxing for him....he would finish long before the time allowed, and he realized that gave him an opportunity. From that point on, he would create two columns on his papers, labeling one "the answer you want and can grade me on" and the other "the truth...deal with it."

The bottom line is; a: global warming is real, so we better do something aboutit.

False. And, if you think about it, the underlying assumption -- man is god and all-powerful -- is utterly ridiculous. Keep in mind, one random volcano eruption -- above ground or under the ocean -- "undoes" a decade or two of everything man could ever hope to do in the most ideal and extreme of scenarios.

b: it's not real, so why not do something about it.

Next, you'll be wanting to erect concrete walls with electric fences on both sides right outside your kids' closets just in case there might really be monsters in there!

Because if "a" is true, we're screwed if we don't,...

No...that's just wrong in so many ways.

First, "a" contains the false presumption that a very slight warm spell -- a half of a degree over the entire history of fairly accurately measured and recorded temperature -- is human-caused; given that Mars is showing an identical warm spell, it is completely illogical to attribute it to any kind of human activity.

Second, it contains the false assumption that we will "suffer" somehow from the very slight warm spell. Now, considering that statement tends to come consistently from evolution-believers, the assumption should be "we'll just adapt and evolve as we have over millions of years?" But, no.....they say, "we're screwed!" They contradict themselves -- over and over, as a matter of fact -- and demonstrate that they have no solid, foundational principles on which they base their beliefs....they believe whatever enables their supposed belief at the moment even if it contradicts a belief they'll espouse one minute later.

This very slight warm spell has provided a number of positives -- deaths from cold-induced heart attacks have dropped substantially, farmers have been able to get two crop cycles out of fields that usually produce one and then sit idle, travel and shipping by boat and truck have been able to continue in the far northern and southern latitudes later in the year, winter car accidents have been down, winter commutes have been shorter (reducing exhaust, in theory), airport delays have been down (other than Denver, of course, which, in the midst of this supposed "warming," had blizzards produce so much snow that an airport designed to be unstoppable was brought to a halt twice in a matter of days!), companies that sell outdoor and recreational goods have seen higher sales as their products have been able to be used more weeks every year,.....I mean, geez...this is all great stuff!

Third, it contains the false assumption that man is god. It is absurd to think that little, tiny man can actually "hurt" a planet or "save" a planet! (As if we even really understand how it all works, anyway.) As I pointed out earlier, one volcano can "pollute" the air more in a minute than all of man can in years! (And that's a "natural" process, of course. 8 All bow down and worship "natural!" Oh...and eruptions go on for hours, not just a minute.) ) One underwater volcano can produce enough heat to "warm" the ocean more in a few minutes than man could do in a generation or a lifetime! (And that, too, is a "natural" process.)

Fourth, it contains the false assumption that we have some clue what we're doing.

Gasses and particulates in the air....what do they do? We're told that, if they come from cars, they create some sort of blanket through which light energy can pass freely but heat energy cannot and, thus, warm us up. If they come from a nuclear blast, "they" tell us, they create some sort of reverse blanket through which light energy cannot pass but heat energy can (going out)...a "nuclear winter." Same stuff and situation (gasses and particulates in the air), but two different outcomes? Wellllll,.......which is it?

Carbon dioxide. We're told carbon dioxide is the primary "greenhouse" gas that is a horrible, horrible problem for us. Which is really weird...you know, 'cause it's in all our lungs...our bodies make it and exhale it every time we breathe. Carbon dioxide is going to kill us all, and it must be reduced to as close to zero as possible! At the same time, plants take carbon dioxide in and put oxygen out! Higher levels of carbon dioxide promote greater plant growth and more oxygen! Why, for years, people were told to "talk to" their plants 'cause exhaling carbon dioxide on them is good!

Ozone. For years, we were told ozone was some big problem...it was an evil pollutant that had all somehow magically made its way flash-mob-style from across the globe to a particular meet-up spot, conspired to create a "hole" in the atmosphere, bullied all other atmospheric gasses and layers out of the way, and subjected all under it to skin cancer. Now, though, that very same ozone "pollutant" is considered an air freshener, and machines that make it are sold at $330 a pop under names like "Ionic Breeze!" Ooooooo...it's like after a thunderstorm....ooooooooo! Think about it -- we're now intentionally making it!

Soooo........what are all these things? Warmers or coolers? Pollutants or fresheners? Good or bad?

Easy.....whatever fools people into believing what the extremists, kooks, and few true believers think will benefit the green/socialist/communist movement that day. And, when you smarten up enough to start to disbelieve the kooks, they make up a "new" "crisis" to pull you back in.

You're being taken down the path, folks. Stop following like you're dumb cattle. Relax. Realize the truth in my latest sig....realize that there is a "second naivete"....a second kind of simplicity that lies on the far side of the complexity of everything. Just relax and think about this like a child would -- take good care of your stuff, keep your room clean, and tidy up any mess you make as best you can; people are what's important, the rest can be fixed or replaced.

...but if "b" is true, we create dozens of new industries and hundreds of thousands of new jobs.

That, too, is false. Placing such massive drags on an economy is always severely detrimental. Just look at the high-unemployment, no-growth economies of "old" Europe if you want to see the result of high-cost regulation, even when done supposedly for "good" reasons.

But there's something particularly insidious about this current induced-hysteria -- the socialist/communist politicos advocating this wild-eyed belief are almost all strongly connected and/or heavily invested in the industries and companies that would make money from this. These politicos are working to use goverment power to steal money and resources from Americans and American companies and put them in their own pockets....and, of course, exempt themselves from the burdens they force on everyone else. It is literally what history has shown socialists and communists do every time -- worsen the people's standard of living to increase their own, enriching themselves while solidifying their power all along the way.

As hindisght always suggests, it's much better if you spot evil in advance, and that's exactly what we have here.

We change certain things about the way we live...

...and all for nothing. Even if you momentarily make the mistake of accepting the assumptions of this generation's version of the "ice age is coming" or "the oceans are drying up" nutsos, China and India make moot anything and everything we could ever do. When China and India meet all the kookiest of kook standards, then come back with them for us...until then, there's not a single reason to even consider them. We're already among the cleanest, most pollution-free places on earth. (Oh, and it's because of our success and wealth.)

If you go to the doctor and he says you have heart disease, do you say, "well, I'll do something about it as soon as you can tell me the exact date I'll have a fatal heart attack".

Extremely poor analogy. In the case of heart disease, we actually do have some cause-and-effect knowledge...some, and it's not 100% perfect and predictive!

While scientists can't tell us exactly the day West Virginia will become ocean front property, all the evidence says we're warming up.

False. "All" the evidence does not say any one thing. And, though a portion may point in some direction, as you wrote, short term variation does not equal a long term trend.

But, since you seem to have bought into the "the oceans are rising and will flood us all" nonsense, think about this:

Water has a unique property -- it is the only substance that expands as it becomes a solid. Frozen water takes up more space than liquid water. When other substances melt, they take up more space; when water melts, it takes up less. If "global warming" were real and permanent, I would suggest current beachfront-property owners would eventually be a block or two inland, not the other way around! Do an experiment for fun and learning -- take a small or medium-sized container for which you have a sealing lid, load it with ice cubes, fill up every last remaining bit of it with water, put the sealing lid on, and wait until the ice melts. Note what you see. (Spoiler: it will "magically" be no longer full! It will "look like" some water got out or something.)

Here...I'll throw another wrench into your works. Are you aware of the difference in locations of temperature/weather stations years ago and now? Several things have happened with those, all of which would support a false conclusion of "warming." First, noticing fewer variations over relatively small distances than were initially anticipated, the number of "official" temperature-measuring stations was reduced over the years. Second, as population increased, cities and suburbs grew out and surrounded a number of the consolidated stations. Finally, as use of blacktop increased and buildings followed people outward, blacktop and buildings in these now-larger metro areas absorbed sunlight and heat during the day and re-radiated it at night; this resulted in overnight surface lows and daytime surface highs in these previously more rural areas being higher than before. It's an easy case of flawed methodology producing flawed results and flawed results causing flawed conclusions. Temperatures changed at these locations because the surroundings of those locations changed, not because "it" actually got hotter, and there were no longer the same percentage of stations in areas considered "rural" to balance the numbers out.

If the percentage of temperature-measuring stations were rebalanced to provide the same balance of urban/suburban/rural as years past, what would be the result? We'll probably never know....it would almost assuredly send the kooks to their corners in shame, and they just won't have that.

Hey, while we're at it, let's talk a little carbon dioxide again. As scientists drill down into the really deep ice on the poles, all the way down to the ice that was supposedly formed there during the last ice age, they discover something fascinating about the air in that ice -- it contains a level of carbon dioxide 1800% that of the atmospheric concentration today. Doesn't that just very simply suggest either that carbon dioxide is irrelevant as an atmospheric gas when it comes to "warming" or that carbon dioxide is associated with ice ages (read: massive cooling)????

So why not take pre-emptive action?

It's "preemptive," and the answer is, "because it is completely unnecessary and actually unwise to 'prepare' for that which you know will never come." In the meantime, you've destroyed an outstanding country and thousands of strong businesses for the sake of enriching a few communist-types and giving away our advantages to China, Russia, India, and the like.

God, Sheryl Crow is hot.

What a wild sense of beauty...I mean, you look up "skanky" in the dictionary, and hers is the picture next to it with the caption "just like this." Eww!

And she's shockingly dumb, too....but, in the true "celebrity" vein, is really cocky and arrogant about her ignorance and stupidity. She is completely unattractive in every way.

[Zak Tyler]

FU@Kit. i think the sun is about to explode, and when it does we'll have about 7 minutes to get limber enough to kiss our asses goodbye

cheers!

beer anyone????

[Big Media]

FU@Kit.

beer anyone????

Yeah... I ain't got time to read all that crap. Enough's enough.

However, if this global warming thing is real, there's going to be some pissed off polar bears running around Huntington looking for seals. Hell, it may be a good thing. It may take care of Huntington's homeless problem.

[Jay Nunley]

Fuck the planet.

Fuck humanity.

We are all doomed with or without climate change.

--OR--


Everything is groovy and you guys worry about shit too much.

--OR--

We are both fucked and worry too much.


I don't know shit about shit.

[Arp2]

Yeah... I ain't got time to read all that crap.

Aw, c'mon....it's good stuff!

(I knew it was long, of course....but it was worth it. And I didn't have time to make it shorter.)

[Hoosier Daddy]

Someone is in love with himself.

[Arp2]

...and someone always falls back on "change the subject" and "attack the attacker."