Accurian HD Radio

[Ace Purple]

Do any of you have experience with the Accurian HD Radio? I am contemplating purchasing it or putting it on my Christmas list, and I've read the online reviews on it, but I figured I'd check here first.

If not the Accurian, any recommendations for a tabletop HD radio in the >$100 category?

[Clay JD Walker]

I have an older Directed model on my desk which has been very good to me...and HD that also picks up RDS. I have the portable JVC 'pop on' in my truck, and it too is very good...I'm not sure on the price of the Directed table top model, as it was a gift from the company, but the JVC was about $125 back in the early spring. I'm not a fan of the Accurian's speakers, but I'm a speaker snob. Also, on the note of sensitivity, and granted, this is a result of the physical location of my tuner, without an antenna amplifier and good placement of the wire antenna, pulling HD in an office building is nearly impossible. Of course, my office is very close to the airport, plus the office is metal and concrete. At home, I have no problems with HD...I get Greensboro, plus a dash of Charlotte and Raleigh in HD on a good day. Of course, the car HD has never had a single problem picking up anything...I can be on the northern most part of my station's coverage area (a little south of Wythville) and still pull in the HD.

[Ace Purple]

I've read that the bass on the Accurian is rather strong. RadioShack lists it at $79.97, though I've seen some listed on eBay for less than that.

I live in the suburbs of Nashville, so there might be some issues with HD signal strength (though Nashville has some 100kw flamethrowers, which means 10kw for the HD signals if I'm not mistaken.) Antenna location and placement will likely play a prominent role in ability to draw in a signal, so I imagine I'll either have to use my Terk indoor antenna or purchase one.

[Clay JD Walker]

Well, the 10% is based on the effeciency of digital verses analog. It takes 10K digital to cover what 100K will cover analog, if I'm not mistaken. It's really cool if you're in a location where your analog is on the fringe, and the static sounds like balls, but the digital still pops in, and sounds as if you're in the control room monitoring.

On a personal note, I wish the encode/decode delay would go away, because you cannot monitor off air in the control room. Instead, in our situation, we just use some gear to fake the off air so you don't have to monitor program (which sucks even harder). It just takes a long time to get used to...but I guess if you have ever worked in talk radio, or had a talk intensive morning show, this isn't anything new, so I should just quit my bitchin'. Plus, without the delay, we could yet again do live remotes...if the live factor is something you're in to (IMHO, I'm not...your board op can cut out all of the bullshit and get out faster).

But boy...with the new processors out there geared for HD, like the new Omnias and Orbans...sure it processes the HD amazingly, but it will also add much welcomed life to your analog signal...but of course then you've gotta start replacing source material with uncompressed stuff to keep it up...

I think you're gonna be good to go with the Radio Shack model...they're all basically made with the same guts...that is, until Pioneer decides to make an HD super tuner...if they ever.

[Cameron]

...sure it processes the HD amazingly, but it will also add much welcomed life to your analog signal....

That's where we will have to disagree.

I have yet to hear the analog audio of a well-processed IBOC station sound good in comparison to the analog audio of a well-processed non-IBOC station. "Plastic" is the best way I know to describe the IBOC analog audio. I HAVE heard watered-down analog audio in order for the blend to HD sound "dramatic". I also have heard digtal artifacts in just about every IBOC station. Does anyone really care? Probably not. HD-2...don't get me started.

Although I'm not a fan of the interference, AM IBOC is a more "dramatic" improvement to the average listener.

[Clay JD Walker]

To be honest, the only comparison I have is when the 8500 had to have the compoisite output card replaced, and we had to go back to the 8200 we were using prior to the HD upgrade...didn't sound as punchy and strong...however, it could all be because the 8200 wasn't set up as well as we set up the 8500.

Now, some of the other HD stations in the market sound like balls...seriously...maybe a result of composite clipping into the HD Xmtr, or they're bitstarving the HD1 to get a higher quality HD2...I'd rather have it the other way around, if you ask me...

[Ace Purple]

How difficult is it to get an HD2/HD3 station on the air? I take it that it goes beyond simply flipping a switch.

[Arp2]

...didn't sound as punchy and strong...however, it could all be because the 8200 wasn't set up as well as we set up the 8500.

Oh, gosh, no....it's 'cause the 8200 sucked.

Well, by comparison.

Wait....no, it just sucked.

Seemed cool at the time, but that's 'cause you just didn't want to admit how much your big, new, gotta-live-with-it-for-some-time purchase sucked. People snuck their old chains back on the air...I know a place that mounted its real chain backwards in the rack and covered it with security plates so that corporate would see only the lit-up 8200 it if they walked through. A number found that XT chassis for the 8100s interesting again.

But, anyway, yeah, those 8500s can sound real purdy.


Not to start the processing fight or anything....back to the HD discussion.....

[Clay JD Walker]

At my place of work, the HD2s (no 3s yet) originate from a rack room, running another automation system for each HD2 station (4)...we remote into them from our desks and upload schedules, imaging, ect...because Ibiquity and the Alliance told us not to put spots on the air, they run commercial free...makes sense, considering market penetration of recievers is still quite low. The audio out of those automation machines are fed across the starlink to each respective transmit shack...then, here's where the cool stuff happens...the main (HD1) is fed to the Orban, and the HD2 is sent to another set of processing (one made for just HD...little less complex too), then both audio/PAD (song title/artist/station info/itunes tagging) streams are sent to Exporter, a computer system that puts all that shit together, then to the digital exciter, and to your radio. It's not as hard as it sounds, and when everything is in line, it's easy to put another HD station on the air...the only problem comes with cutting the bit rate of your other stations. You can divide your stations into CD quality (100 kbps), FM quality (25-50 kbps), AM quality (12 kbps), or Talk quality (5 kbps)...Right now, IMHO, I would stick to just an HD2, simply because of infastructure...it can get costly, so it seems, to run another STL path across all of your FMs to put another HD station on the air, when the end result comes from a very small minority of listeners hearing them. In most cases, as in the commercial free/cost/benefit analysis, I'm certain listeners will sample the HD2/3 stations, but return to the mains...no jocks, just songs and imaging...

Then, we can pose the programming argument...now that Arbitron counts HD stations in your market, would you want another station on your own signal competing against your main channel? I know it's all about options, but still...

And let me ask you this...what about legal IDing? Callsigns change when you sign on an HD (Hybrid Digital) from (in my case) WPAW-FM to WPAW-HD1 for the main, and WPAW-HD2 on the Oldies channel...we ID them both audiblly and visually on the radio display...some have argued that you're still supposed to ID both the analog and digital in the top of hour (I've heard, for example, WPAW-FM/WPAW-HD1 Winston-Salem) at the top of hour...yet again, something else no one can provide a solid answer...

And yes, there are public affairs requirements on those HD2 and HD3s as well...cannot be run at the same time as on the main, but it can be the same shows...so we run our PA shows (local/infotrack) on Sunday morning 6-8a on the HD1, and then 8a-10a (infotrack/healthbeat) on the HD2...

IMHO, If and when HD Radio takes off, it can be a really good tool for us to create a new farm team for radio...if only I had the chance while I was at Marshall to not only work on the MUL, but also have a more steady, consistent shift on RVC-HD2, with daily/weekly airchecks from Nunley (at the time)...certainly, it was a blessing of mine for someone like Nunley to put me on the air and bust my nuts, but could you imagine?!

I'm just sayin'...

damn, how off topic did I get there, anyway.

[AmpedNow]

There are still very few HD stations in WV. There are no HD-2s or HD-AMs. And none of them scroll any text.

The only time I really got to sample it was when I was in Houston last summer and driving through various cities there and back.

In Houston, There is plenty to sample. The big country station there has HD-2 and 3 country streams. Hot 95.7 recently put an all dance on its HD-2. And n/t KTRH is simulcasted on KLOL HD-2, and sounds much better than the analog AM.

This would be a good idea in Charleston, to put WCHS on KAZ's HD-2, although their HD was off earlier tonight...

The odd thing is, there are about 6 AMs in the Houston market that broadcast in HD, and all of them turn it off at night. Yet the nighttime AM band there is jammed with IBUZ and spanish garble. You can hear WSM and WLAC pretty clear, though.

There are not many HD-3s anywhere, except mainly public radio. But the 3s I've heard sound ok for talk but artifacty for music.

As for the text, I'd like to see more potential use there. Instead of just title tagging, why not scroll things like station announcenents, current weather conditions, traffic alerts, maybe even a scroll-only CD contest just to see how many are listening and paying attention. The possibilities are many.

It may not be too practical now, but when every radio, car or otherwise, comes with LCD "info screens", it might be good to do this, instead of just XXXX-FM/HD-1 all the time.

How hard is it to real-time update HD scroll data?

[Ace Purple]

I know that the FCC isn't being clear about legal IDing for HD stations. Then again, from my experiences in gathering legal IDs for tophour.com, I know that legal IDing is often done improperly for regular, non-HD stations, be it including or excluding an FM suffix when required, adding an entirely wrong AM suffix, or putting something like the word and between the call letters and the city of license. For something that is so simple to do properly, it's often botched. I created a legal ID for WUEV/Evansville (quickly spoken: "91 point 5, WUEV, Evansville") that we had in the system that took all of two seconds to run, and that was when I was 18 years old and a rookie in radio. It's not that tough to do it properly!

Then again, if the FCC isn't going to fine stations for not properly legally identifying (save for the rarest of occasions), I suppose it doesn't matter.

[Ace Purple]

There are not many HD-3s anywhere, except mainly public radio. But the 3s I've heard sound ok for talk but artifacty for music.

What reasons are there that HD3 stations are so relatively scarce? I figure that clusters with strong FM signals and perhaps a weaker AM signal could throw a simulcast of the weaker AM signal up on an HD3 signal. There are some AM stations being simulcast on HD2 FM stations (WSB/Atlanta comes to mind), but in particular a lower-powered AM talk/sports station on a 100kw HD3 would seem to be a smart move.

Question: does the licensing with iBiquity allow stations to put on an HD2 and HD3 channel without having an HD simulcast of the already high-quality of FM radio? I did some reading on hdradio.com but couldn't find many details about it.

Another thought: could a station do a payola-style setup with new music on an HD2 channel (ideally with a format that avails itself to new music), but make it legal by giving the required disclosure?

When a broadcast licensee has received or been promised payment for the airing of program material, then, at the time of the airing, the station must disclose that fact and identify who paid for or promised to pay for the material.

Is it possible to create a cash-flow positive situation by utilizing such an approach?

[Hoosier Daddy]

Do you think we'll ever see the day when the FCC simply requires some type of silent, non-obtrusive station identifier (similar to what is available now for translators -- some type of FSK Morse Code transmission) which could theoretically transmit the station's FCC callsign every five minutes or so. Since everything is "Rock 99" or "Flowers 102" or "K-106" these days, and since at least some of the attempts to do a legal ID are done improperly or not at all, wouldn't this be a better solution for all?

[AmpedNow]

What reasons are there that HD3 stations are so relatively scarce?

Probably because it's a chore to find decent content for three streams.

If you have two HD subchannels, that's 72 hours per day of content to fill the dead air.

Then there's the bandwidth issue. Even your main channel will suffer somewhat, esp if both subschannels are music.

I figure that clusters with strong FM signals and perhaps a weaker AM signal could throw a simulcast of the weaker AM signal up on an HD3 signal. There are some AM stations being simulcast on HD2 FM stations (WSB/Atlanta comes to mind), but in particular a lower-powered AM talk/sports station on a 100kw HD3 would seem to be a smart move.

This is happening in several markets. As I said, Houston is one of them. In NYC, WABC was also on WPLJ's-HD3. Currently WCBS is on CBS-FM's HD-3, and there's talk of putting WFAN on K-Rock's HD-3. In L.A., KNX is on 94.7 The Wave's HD-3. There's been talk about simulcasting KFI on another CC station, but they will be in HD on 640 very shortly.

Locally, WCHS deserves to be on KAZ's or V100's HD-2. I don't see any downside to this, and I don't imagine it would be hard to do...

Or, just put 580 in HD. Make it WV's first HD-AM station.

OR, be the first station in the country to make history... Find an internet station with an interesting format and put them on the HD-2 or 3.

Oh yeah, that isn't real radio... Sorry.

[Ace Purple]

I finally purchased an Accurian HD Radio. After some scouring and bidding on eBay, I landed one for $44.99 with free shipping. It was "gently used" but when it arrived the only sign that it wasn't brand new was that there were a couple of stations programmed and that the battery had already been put into the remote.

So far... I'm VERY impressed. The tuner is outstanding, to the point where I can pick up Lightning 100 (which even my Superadio couldn't pick up here). It comes with the same plastic-covered soft wire style FM antenna that comes with the Radio Pogo, but the ability to pick up FM signals is night-and-day different. Even if I didn't have HD radio in my area I'd still be happy with my Accurian. It has a bit of an issue with the distant CHR 98.5 out of Cookeville, but besides getting lucky with my Superadio I mostly am resigned to hearing that in my car, and even there it's not the best.

As for the quality of the HD1 signals, I can't particularly tell a difference from the analog and HD signals on FM, though to be fair I'm not particularly strong at differentiating audio signal quality (save for things like 64 kbps vs. 128 kbps or the overall low quality audio that the cheap earbuds I bought on eBay gives me on my iPod nano at the gym). I haven't yet picked up an AM HD signal despite the HD Radio site claiming that 1510 and 1430 offer it, and I'm not sure if there really is AM HD in the market now. I might take my Accurian over to my parents' house in the Nashville city limits this weekend to see if it can pick up any AM HD there.

HD2/HD3 is nice to have, particularly with 1510 WLAC simulcasting on 105.9 WNRQ HD3. Here in the suburbs of Nashville, 1510 WLAC has static even at 50kw/50kw, which makes the HD3 channel a perfect option with great clarity to go with it. I'm not necessarily much for Rush, Hannity, etc., but it's nice to have as an option, particularly in such strong quality.

The only HD channel I've had problems pulling in is the 101.1 WUBT HD2 (slow jams), which I had to do a bit of antenna positioning to get. That station is licensed to Russellville, KY, which may or may not play into that. I had anticipating there being problems pulling in HD signals based on horror stories from others, but for the most part the Accurian pulls them in just fine.

I've been unimpressed with the imaging on the HD2 stations (only Clear Channel in the commercial band has it on here to this point), with plenty of bland segues and very little in the way of imaging besides the top of the hour IDs, which they seem to have only one cut of for each channel. There are no commercials besides the WLAC commercials on the HD3 simulcast on WNRQ. WLAC actually does a good job of promoting the HD3 channel in local breaks. With competition from FM talker WWTN, it's a good idea for WLAC to push the HD3 option, particularly for people like me in the suburbs.

Nashville Public Radio has almost identical legal IDs for its HD2 and HD3 stations on 90.3 WPLN-FM, which would be okay except that they incorrectly define HD radio as "high definition" radio which it's not (but it was rather clever branding by iBiquity, I must admit). I expected better from Nashville Public Radio on that.

The new CHR music sub-channel on 107.5 WRVW HD2 (identified as "Future Radio" in the one ID every top of the hour) does have some nice new music selections, but based on my limited listening (with the HD having been out for part of last week) it seems that they have pretty tight cycling, with the same song airing twice within 90 minutes. "Viva La Vida" by Coldplay aired over the weekend, which was odd considering that it's already been through the CHR ringer. It seemed to be mostly new music by established artists, which is a shame in some ways but it's nice to have as an option.

Another nice thing with the HD channels is the artist/song identifier. I've become used to that with my Sirius Starmate, and it's nice to see it on over-the-air stations. I've seen that on the LCD before in a rental car, but I never had it on a radio I owned until now.

Overall I strongly recommend the Accurian HD Radio for anyone, particularly for people who work in the business. Even in West Virginia, where there are no HD2/HD3 offerings at the moment, I'd consider it to be a worthwhile purchase, particularly if you can land one of the almost-new ones on eBay.

[AmpedNow]

HD2/HD3 is nice to have, particularly with 1510 WLAC simulcasting on 105.9 WNRQ HD3. Here in the suburbs of Nashville, 1510 WLAC has static even at 50kw/50kw, which makes the HD3 channel a perfect option with great clarity to go with it.

That's funny, because I can verify that WLAC comes in clear at night everywhere between WV and Houston. They even locked my HD for minutes at a time while riding through Mississippi on the way back. They're very listenable in WV most nights, too, although I've yet to get a HD lock on them...

As for the Accurian, I've heard both good and bad things about it, But they're worth $50, if that's the going price on them now. iBiquity announced several new HD Radio models coming out this year, including a portable. The chips are getting smaller and more efficient, and the price point is coming down.

I've found the sensitivity of my JVC to be outstanding with analog. I've also never heard a radio do as good a job of filtering out first adjacent interference. This tuner is far batter than my old Sony.

This seems to be true of most HD radios.

[Arp2]

HD2/HD3 is nice to have, particularly with 1510 WLAC simulcasting on 105.9 WNRQ HD3. Here in the suburbs of Nashville, 1510 WLAC has static even at 50kw/50kw, which makes the HD3 channel a perfect option with great clarity to go with it.

That's funny, because I can verify that WLAC comes in clear at night everywhere between WV and Houston. They even locked my HD for minutes at a time while riding through Mississippi on the way back. They're very listenable in WV most nights, too, although I've yet to get a HD lock on them.

I'm getting a little deja vu, here.....I'm about 100% sure this discussion has happened several times before (although I'm about 99% sure it was somewhere else).

It's something along the lines of WLAC being the perfect anti-example for antenna or ground-system design....something like the groundwave and skywave cancelling each other from 30-70 miles out (which describes a good chunk of "Nashville" these days) and nobody being able to do a darn thing about it......I don't remember....sound familiar to anyone else?

[Hoosier Daddy]

I don't remember it discussed here. Radio-info, maybe?

[Arp2]

Could've been....could've been in the real world.......could've been in newsgroups 10-20 years ago........

You know how the memory works.....or doesn't.........

[Dave Loudin]

HD2/HD3 is nice to have, particularly with 1510 WLAC simulcasting on 105.9 WNRQ HD3. Here in the suburbs of Nashville, 1510 WLAC has static even at 50kw/50kw, which makes the HD3 channel a perfect option with great clarity to go with it.

That's funny, because I can verify that WLAC comes in clear at night everywhere between WV and Houston. They even locked my HD for minutes at a time while riding through Mississippi on the way back. They're very listenable in WV most nights, too, although I've yet to get a HD lock on them...

In these parts, WLAC and WWZN, Boston come in at about the same strength.