Why do bees....

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Rock
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Why do bees....

Post by Rock » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:33 pm

...seem to love RF? :?

Bartholomew, would love to hear your answer on this. :)
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by genlock » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:39 pm

Do you mean "why do they hang out around flanges on towers"?
Where to your bees hang out?
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by Rock » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:51 pm

Bloody everywhere...flanges, in tuning units, sheesh...
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by genlock » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:06 pm

Heat, they are looking for heat.
What are you doing at the transmitter?
You could get killed there. Very dangerous and complicated.
Leave that sort of thing to those who know.
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by Rock » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:25 pm

Well, it's...complicated.

Here's it in a nutshell.

1) AM tuning blew capacitor. blew capacitor so badly there was no way to determine value. Contract Engineer called our buddy, another Engineer, and asked him to bring bridge so they could re-tune. also bring extra caps, since we've been spitting in the wind to find the proper one. Contract engineer, like EVERY BLOODY ENGINEER I KNOW has his vehicle bed stacked with posthole diggers, 3 rolls of audio wire, 6 bags of quikrete, ladders, antennas, etc. In his passenger seat is a 700 piece craftsman tool kit, 3 starguide receivers, 3 years of back-issues of Radio World, 2 desktop PCs, and a set of keys that would be more adequately used in the Dark Ages as a Flail. In other words, an absolutely AWESOME Engineer. :D So, since he has no room, and buddy awesome engineer hisself is coming to have his vehicle serviced in-town, needs a ride to the stick site.

2) Which is why, at 10am yesterday morning, I was standing on Greenbrier Mountain, watching 2 dudes take readings, put in cap, measure readings, curse loudly and vociferously, replace cap. This went on for many hours...the sun was warm, and the wind was enough to draw my nads into my high intestine. I was very cold.

I learned many things yesterday....

Bees love RF. Any kind of enclosure near a stick, box, or dish...they'll be there. And pissed.
Capacitors in parallel work kind of like resistors in series. I did not know this...having learned this, I feel no sense of accomplishment.
I still have no frakking clue what they were doing, even though they tried to 'splain it.
Good Engineers rule...modern day Sorcerers.

Next time, I clean out the dude's truck. I don't need to do that again. :wink:
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It is too late to work within the system,
but too early to shoot the bastards.
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by genlock » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:35 pm

Wasps or Yellow Jackets. The RF may heat them due to differences in the dielectric constant
of their bodies and the surrounding air in the high rf field. They need to keep warm or die.
At least you found some guys with the correct type of capacitors to do the job.
Have one of them make a diagram of the tuning stuff so it can be lost like the last one was.
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by Rock » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:37 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

They wrote it on the wall in big sharpie ink a few inches away from it. :wink:

Oh..wait! You answered that! Dielectric constant? Ah shit...now I gotta look that one up, too. Millihenrys, indeed.
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by genlock » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:48 pm

You see, radio is not just the glamor, sex and money at the studio,
Real intellectual work is done by engineers in the field.
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by genlock » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:56 pm

More than likely, the dark colored metal in the apparatus just absorbs solar radiation
and gets hot and re-radiates the heat out. Could be dielectric heating. Sounds cooler than "gets hot".
Wasps are attracted to certain sections of a tower because of the flange surfaces may collect more sunlight.
This time of the year, some of the wasps can be meaner than normal. Let the engineers shoo them away,
they don't feel pain like you do.
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by Rock » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:00 pm

I knew I could count on you, friend. :)

Btw, what studio has the glamour, sex, and money? Shoot me some directions? :wink:

I dig engineers..it was neat to watch 'em cyphering.
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by Cameron » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:27 am

genlock wrote:Have one of them make a diagram of the tuning stuff so it can be lost like the last one was.
The Commish generally asks for this diagram (with values) when they do a technical inspection.
Make yourself a paper-copy of the ATU-values and keep it at the xmtr site and in a file at the studio.
At the very least you'll have a reference for next time.
(A healthy vaccum-variable cap with a big-swing in value can help you "solve for X" too.)

Your matching-network is the bridge between the tower-value and that magic 50ohms.

(Listen to it sing when you've hit resonance).
genlock wrote:You see, radio is not just the glamor, sex and money at the studio,
Real intellectual work is done by engineers in the field.
Grab a salesperson and have them point in the general-direction of one of your stations' transmitter sites.
(Give them a fudge-factor of 20 degrees)
They'll still score less than 30%
It's really sad if the box is co-located with the studio.

Base Current Squared x what's ahead in the "big mystery box" will make their head explode.
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by Hoosier Daddy » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:42 pm

Tell the salespeople to stick their tongue on that big gold post on top the huge ceramic insulator at the AM tower base.
Do it during the daytime on an active tower.

:lol:
Translators are a Pox on the FM radio dial.

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Re: Why do bees....

Post by Rock » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:52 pm

I've a salesweasel that'd be perfect for that. :twisted:
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by engineer » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:14 pm

Ah, just roll your own mica caps! I used to have a book that explained how to build 10 kV Micas at several common values. The mica sheets used at electric motor shops can be used to make your own caps. Most thin mica sheets will have a dielectric constant of 4 or 5. You will also need some thin aluminum sheet metal and some PVC pipe! :D Just stand back in case it blows. :lol:
Rock wrote:Well, it's...complicated.

Here's it in a nutshell.

1) AM tuning blew capacitor. blew capacitor so badly there was no way to determine value. Contract Engineer called our buddy, another Engineer, and asked him to bring bridge so they could re-tune. also bring extra caps, since we've been spitting in the wind to find the proper one. Contract engineer, like EVERY BLOODY ENGINEER I KNOW has his vehicle bed stacked with posthole diggers, 3 rolls of audio wire, 6 bags of quikrete, ladders, antennas, etc. In his passenger seat is a 700 piece craftsman tool kit, 3 starguide receivers, 3 years of back-issues of Radio World, 2 desktop PCs, and a set of keys that would be more adequately used in the Dark Ages as a Flail. In other words, an absolutely AWESOME Engineer. :D So, since he has no room, and buddy awesome engineer hisself is coming to have his vehicle serviced in-town, needs a ride to the stick site.

2) Which is why, at 10am yesterday morning, I was standing on Greenbrier Mountain, watching 2 dudes take readings, put in cap, measure readings, curse loudly and vociferously, replace cap. This went on for many hours...the sun was warm, and the wind was enough to draw my nads into my high intestine. I was very cold.

I learned many things yesterday....

Bees love RF. Any kind of enclosure near a stick, box, or dish...they'll be there. And pissed.
Capacitors in parallel work kind of like resistors in series. I did not know this...having learned this, I feel no sense of accomplishment.
I still have no frakking clue what they were doing, even though they tried to 'splain it.
Good Engineers rule...modern day Sorcerers.

Next time, I clean out the dude's truck. I don't need to do that again. :wink:

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Re: Why do bees....

Post by genlock » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:28 pm

Cheap and quick, yes.
Might be able to get you back on till a suitable replacement was found.
Would that capacitor be stable in differing temperature and humidity?
I don't think so. Great geek solution.
Most general managers would love it and would not order the correct replacement.
Maybe till it blew during the Friday night Football game.
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by engineer » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:57 pm

It may get you back on the air at reduced modulation, but it would not survive in a DC blocking position :mrgreen:
genlock wrote:Cheap and quick, yes.
Might be able to get you back on till a suitable replacement was found.
Would that capacitor be stable in differing temperature and humidity?
I don't think so. Great geek solution.
Most general managers would love it and would not order the correct replacement.
Maybe till it blew during the Friday night Football game.

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Re: Why do bees....

Post by oldtvman2 » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:21 am

capacitors in parallel add and the voltage stays the same. when matching the antenna it dosen't matter how many cap you use what matters is that you have a match. when using several capacitors you have a greater chance of one breaking down. and changing the match. with the antenna matched and the transmitter having the proper output current everything should be ok. if the antenna is not matched then the pattern could be greater or less depending on the match. dc blocking usually isn't a concern at the antenna. in the old days the transmitter engineer knew the values in his tuning unit. but then we had engineers at the transmitter and full time at the station, not contract engineers. bees like tuning units because there is a certain ammount of heat generated and they like that. have had to use a lot of wasp spray when checking base current readings. also their nest can change the tuning of the antenna.
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by genlock » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:29 pm

Mouse urine is really bad for circuit boards.
A turkey roosting in the generator shack makes a big mess.
Snakes also like the tuning house. Ants too.
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Re: Why do bees....

Post by Jay Nunley » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:05 pm

Where does the Illudium Q 36 Explosive Space Modulator go in the chain on this?

Also, it's best to lead salespeople away from all operation areas. The best place for most of the them is a shallow grave up Sarah Ann or Old House Branch.

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Re: Why do bees....

Post by Rock » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:11 pm

oldtvman2 wrote:capacitors in parallel add and the voltage stays the same. when matching the antenna it dosen't matter how many cap you use what matters is that you have a match. when using several capacitors you have a greater chance of one breaking down. and changing the match. with the antenna matched and the transmitter having the proper output current everything should be ok. if the antenna is not matched then the pattern could be greater or less depending on the match. dc blocking usually isn't a concern at the antenna. in the old days the transmitter engineer knew the values in his tuning unit. but then we had engineers at the transmitter and full time at the station, not contract engineers. bees like tuning units because there is a certain ammount of heat generated and they like that. have had to use a lot of wasp spray when checking base current readings. also their nest can change the tuning of the antenna.
That's EXACTLY what they told me...I just couldn't remember all of it. ok...any of it... :)
America is at that awkward stage.
It is too late to work within the system,
but too early to shoot the bastards.
- Claire Wolfe

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