Question for the TV guys

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Tom Taggart
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Question for the TV guys

Post by Tom Taggart » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:56 pm

Genachowski trotted out this claim again that a TV station could share a channel with whatever mythical broadband service would use reclaimed TV spectrum:

"'voluntary incentive auctions,' giving broadcasters the option of channel sharing, in which they could continue to broadcast their primary streams while lowering operating costs and gaining a capital infusion."

See: http://nabshowdaily.com/NabShowToday/99116

My impression that the 8vsb system takes 6 mhz, whether or not a TV station is transmitting a full 1080I sports broadcast, or three 480P conventional definition feeds. I can see how a station might use part of that bandwidth for their 480p main channel, and send some kind of other data feed in the remaining stream, but I sure don't see how that kind of data feed would be any use in expanding broadband usage (since it is obviously one way).

I smell a large chunk of B.S. wrapped up in double-talk.

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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by genlock » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:03 pm

I think Genachowski is referring to the un-used bits in the atsc data stream.
Since the entire 6 mhz is used for the bitstream, and is trellis coded and randomized,
the data would have to be inserted at the station and would be one-way.
FCC has pumped this scenario for years. It is hard to imagine a business plan that
could use one way data at a rate less than half of a fast cable modem and very "bursty".

He is talking out his ass to confuse people.
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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by sportsvoice » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:32 pm

genlock wrote:I think Genachowski is referring to the un-used bits in the atsc data stream.
Since the entire 6 mhz is used for the bitstream, and is trellis coded and randomized,
the data would have to be inserted at the station and would be one-way.
FCC has pumped this scenario for years. It is hard to imagine a business plan that
could use one way data at a rate less than half of a fast cable modem and very "bursty".

He is talking out his ass to confuse people.
They tried this sort of thing in Cincinnati with WKRC. I can't remember what the service was called but it used the TV signal for the downstream side and a dial-up connection for the upstream side. It resulted in crappy quality on any HD programming due to the bits being robbed for the datacasting.

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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by Cameron » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:32 pm

Daddy, what's a TBC?
------------------------
Cameron Smith - CSRE®
Senior Member - SBE #45 Charlotte
Digital Experience Product Manager - Ahold/Delhaize USA

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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by Tom Taggart » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:18 am

Confirms what I thought. Another idea that's been floated is for two TV stations to "share" 6 mhz. Obviously, the only way to do this is for one station to shut down and lease "space" from another station. That is, become one of the secondary channels.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. As though that is going to work for long.

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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by genlock » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:52 am

The subchannels are a great un-used commodity in the Huntington-Charleston market.
Only WSAZ has seen the possibilities of multiple program streams to deliver programming
for their clients and to generate revenue. It's as if the other stations do not want to overwork the sales staff.
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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by oldtvman2 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:26 am

I don't remember if it was Radio or TV, but in the early days stations would share the same frequency. What they would do was one station would operate part of the day on the frequency. at a certain each day they would shut down and the other station would come up on that frequency. I know this happened but I can't remember which way it was either Radio or Early TV??? maybe someone outhere will remember ?
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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by genlock » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:55 am

It was radio.
Before companies had enough money to buy off the FCC and get their own frequency.
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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by oldtvman2 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:50 pm

Thanks. I rember when Stations told the FCC that they had engineers setting around at the transmitter when they would like to put them at the studio and let them work on equipment there. The FCC let them do it and 4 of the transmitter engineers were not transfered to the studio but to the unemployment office. then the FCC let people buy a lot of station TV and Radio only to ruine local radio. The FCC has no guts anymore. they worry more about Janet Jackson's pasties than the quality of repeater radio and the poor service the public gets, as long as they get their money. You had to have quality engineers in the past now anyone can work on transmitters wheither they know anything or not.
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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by genlock » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:43 pm

An example of the sort of stuff that can use the extra bits in a digital broadcast stream is update TV.
Update TV is a service carried on PBS stations which allows software updates for devices such as TVs and converter boxes to be transmitted over the air.
Actually a good idea. At least for a couple of years, then it will be obsolete.
TV guide was on PBS stations for years. TVGOS is the TV Guide On-Screen service. Some select digital TVs, DVRs, and converter boxes
utilize TVGOS for guide data. Rovi, owners of Gemstar/TV Guide, has a deal with CBS and thus digital TVGOS data appears primarily on CBS stations.
(Analog TVGOS data had appeared on PBS.)
PBS station had an analog service with Disney, Microsoft and Mattel where signals were sent via vertical interval and along the horizontal blanking edges to
allow Barney, Wishbone and other expensive plush toy doll figures to be sort of interactive with the program on the TV. It actually worked.
This was in the analog days and I have no idea if it is still running.
PBS vertical interval would set your clock on selected Sony VCR's for many years. Real cutting edge stuff.
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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by Big Media » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:55 pm

After open mobile video, there won't be any bandwidth left. As I understand it, most 720p HD channels use about 10Mbps. Open Mobile Video uses about 5Mbps. Each digital subchannel uses, on average, 2 to 4 Mbps. Nothing left.



TWELVE MAJOR BROADCAST GROUPS TO FORM JOINT VENTURE TO DEVELOP
NATIONAL MOBILE CONTENT SERVICE

LAS VEGAS, NV – April 13, 2010 – Belo Corp., Cox Media Group, E.W. Scripps Co., Fox, Gannett Broadcasting, Hearst Television Inc., ION Television, Media General Inc., Meredith Corp., NBC, Post-Newsweek Stations Inc. and Raycom Media today announced plans to form a standalone joint venture to develop a new national mobile content service. Utilizing existing broadcast spectrum, the service will allow member companies to provide content to mobile devices, including live and on-demand video, local and national news from print and electronic sources, as well as sports and entertainment programming.

Broadcast spectrum to be utilized for the new mobile service will come from the three owned-and-operated station groups -- Fox, NBC & Telemundo, and ION -- and the nine local broadcast groups, which are Belo, Cox, E.W. Scripps, Gannett, Hearst, Media General, Meredith, Post Newsweek and Raycom. Separately, these nine local broadcast companies formed Pearl Mobile DTV Company LLC as a vehicle for their involvement in the venture.

By aggregating existing broadcast spectrum from its launch partners, the new venture will have the capacity to offer a breadth of mobile video and print content to nearly 150 million U.S. residents. In addition to broadcast spectrum, the partners will commit content, marketing resources and capital to the new venture. The service will employ ATSC-M/H, an open broadcast transmission system developed by the Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC) specifically for mobile devices.

The venture is designed to complement the Federal Communication Commission’s (FCC) National Broadband Initiative by giving consumers mobile access to video content while reducing congestion of the nation’s wireless broadband infrastructure. In addition, the service’s mobile content network will have the capacity to deliver local and national time-sensitive emergency information to citizens across the U.S.

Regarding the announcement, Jack Abernethy, Chief Executive Officer of Fox Television Stations, stated: “We are excited about building a platform that makes mobile television universally available and economically viable. This venture is the first step in forging cross-industry and company partnerships to deliver content to consumers.”

“This initiative offers a path for the next generation of video consumption, and will help the FCC in its goal of ensuring efficient and reliable broadband service for US consumers,” said John Wallace, President, NBC Local Media.

“Local broadcasters are the backbone of the U.S. media industry,” said David J. Barrett, President and CEO of Hearst Television Inc. “This sharing of content, broadcast spectrum, marketing resources and capital is unprecedented, and underscores U.S. broadcasters’ commitment to bringing vital local news, weather, and emergency information to increasingly mobile U.S. consumers. This is a critically important initiative that holds great promise for our audiences and the television industry. This is truly the next generation of local television service.”

“This venture takes to the next level the work we embarked upon three years ago with the development of Mobile DTV technology, in anticipation of digital TV capabilities and consumer mobile demand,” said Brandon Burgess, CEO of ION Television.

“Mobile digital television places each of our companies at the center of a consumer transformation, putting us on cell phones, netbooks, DVD players and even in-vehicle entertainment systems,” said David Lougee, President, Gannett Broadcasting, Gannett Co. Inc. “And it’s the consumers who are the big winners. From news and entertainment to emergency information, virtually all U.S. consumers will soon be able to bring their most valuable content with them wherever they go.”

Information regarding a dedicated management team that will focus on securing additional content, spectrum and distribution partnerships for the venture will be made available at a later date.

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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by Clay JD Walker » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:05 pm

OK...I know I'm not quite bright, but did this not exist in the past...with a portable TV? The watchman? Or, maybe, the transistor radio?...Why do we have to complicate things?

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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by oldtvman2 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:54 pm

Mr Walker is right. with analog tv we could pick up tv most anywhere. digital is not as easly received in a moving vehicle. it looks like someone is trying to get more people to use more time on their cell phones. when you get WSAZ mobile dosen't this cost you for more air time? I would not find it more important to see tv on my cell phone in my car since they don't have a lot of local news about accidents and closed roads, you can't even get this news on most radio stations and if you could you could not understand what area they were talking about. I liked the "local broadcasters are the backbone of the us media industery." there are no local broadcasters any more, or at least very few and then only at special times of the day.
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Re: Question for the TV guys

Post by Big Media » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:09 pm

Open Mobile Video is not a pay service. The service will be viewable on enabled phones, laptops, netbooks, portable DVD players, GPS navigation devices and, eventually, a plethora of other portable devices once the service is widely adopted and available in more markets. Right now, it is being tested in Washington DC, Las Vegas, and a few other markets. It will be launching nationwide over the next year or so.

Tests have concluded that the service is actually quite dependable and not nearly as fickle as standard DTV tuners.

http://www.openmobilevideo.com/

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