NY's legendary WCBS-FM going back to oldies

unchoopfan · Post by **unchoopfan** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:20 pm

Report: WCBS-FM going back to oldies
BY RAFER GUZMAN
rafer.guzman@newsday.com
July 6, 2007, 4:53 PM EDT

The legendary oldies station WCBS-FM (101.1 FM) will return to New York next week, a business Website reported Friday afternoon.

If true, the switch will come as good news to oldies fans who were outraged when CBS Radio unceremoniously dumped the much-loved WCBS in June 2005. Longtime hosts such as "Cousin Brucie" Morrow were let go and replaced by Jack-FM, which offered a seemingly random playlist and no on-air personalities.

According to NewYorkBusiness.com, an "industry insider" says that the upcoming oldies format may be modified to appeal to younger listeners, and that veteran DJs may be hired. A spokeswoman at CBS Radio declined to comment.

After rumors about the move appeared Thursday on the New York Radio Message Board, a site devoted to radio topics, readers posted dozens of comments, many of them gloating over Jack's potential demise. One suggested that WCBS's first song should be Ray Charles' "Hit The Road Jack."

The change would be a tacit admission that the Jack format, which detractors have called "an iPod on shuffle," did not resonate with New York listeners. Though Jack had made some strides in recent months, climbing into the Top 10 among listeners age 25-54, its ratings still couldn't match those of the old WCBS.

Bob Loblaw · Post by **Bob Loblaw** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:37 pm

At least they gave it a real shot...as opposed to a 6 month run that some companies give new formats.

Zak Tyler · Post by **Zak Tyler** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:03 am

if i'm not mistaken it was 35 years ago today (july 7th) that oldies debuted on wcbs right?

Big Media · Post by **Big Media** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:51 am

Zak Tyler wrote:if i'm not mistaken it was 35 years ago today (july 7th) that oldies debuted on wcbs right?

But 35 years ago, it wouldn't have been considered oldies... It would have been newies.

[/too early]

Lester · Post by **Lester** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:16 am

Bob Loblaw wrote:At least they gave it a real shot...as opposed to a 6 month run that some companies give new formats.

Aw SNAP!

Uncle Shishkabob · Post by **Uncle Shishkabob** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:16 am

Newies? I thought back in the day we called them "recurrents"

Zak Tyler · Post by **Zak Tyler** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:46 pm

a history lesson for anyone that's interested

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WCBS-FM

the truly amazing radio stations have a life of their own.

Arp2 · Post by **Arp2** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:14 pm

Questions / Mental Exercises:

1. What will "Oldies" mean going forward?

2. This "Jack" was very Anglo; can a station targeted "Anglo-only-ish" "succeed" in New York or any large market these days?

3. If not, is all of radio about to become a lot like the sixth and seventh and eighth TV stations in a market -- very ethnic- and downscale-targeted?

4. This "Jack" sounded a lot like a mix of Z-100, WPLJ, and the bigger AOR station there of about 20-25 years ago...and failed. Does that mean market histories no longer matter?

5. If the history of a market would no longer matter, what would that mean to your answer to question 1?

Jay Nunley · Post by **Jay Nunley** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:44 pm

Arp2 wrote:Questions / Mental Exercises:

1. What will "Oldies" mean going forward?

2. This "Jack" was very Anglo; can a station targeted "Anglo-only-ish" "succeed" in New York or any large market these days?

3. If not, is all of radio about to become a lot like the sixth and seventh and eighth TV stations in a market -- very ethnic- and downscale-targeted?

4. This "Jack" sounded a lot like a mix of Z-100, WPLJ, and the bigger AOR station there of about 20-25 years ago...and failed. Does that mean market histories no longer matter?

5. If the history of a market would no longer matter, what would that mean to your answer to question 1?

1. Whatever the branding and marketing says it is. Repeatedly.

2. Depends on how you define success, but yes.

3. Not ALL of radio, but some of it.

4. Not if the brand isn't being utilized in marketing.

5. Answer stands.

Ace Purple · Post by **Ace Purple** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:28 am

Jack FM/NYC finally cracked the Top 10 in P25-54 in the last book after a slow-but-steady climb, but CBS Radio obviously thinks it can do better with the old CBS-FM presentation.

Oldies is a taboo word; "Greatest Hits of All Time" is the way it goes. Probably more Classic Hits/Oldies hybrid. New York is a unique market; it will be interesting to see how CBS-FM, Take Two goes...

jag · Post by **jag** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:51 pm

Just wondering...is there a format for tunes that are too recent to be oldies (forgive me, Ace) and too old to be current?

AmpedNow · Post by **AmpedNow** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:42 pm

Arp2 wrote:Questions / Mental Exercises:

1. What will "Oldies" mean going forward?

2. This "Jack" was very Anglo; can a station targeted "Anglo-only-ish" "succeed" in New York or any large market these days?

3. If not, is all of radio about to become a lot like the sixth and seventh and eighth TV stations in a market -- very ethnic- and downscale-targeted?

4. This "Jack" sounded a lot like a mix of Z-100, WPLJ, and the bigger AOR station there of about 20-25 years ago...and failed. Does that mean market histories no longer matter?

5. If the history of a market would no longer matter, what would that mean to your answer to question 1?

1. I heard somewhere that the official definition of an oldie is any song that is older than one year from the release date. If that's true, then every station plays "oldies", technically. Even CHRs.

But in most people's minds, they probably think of the original rock & roll from the 50's and 60's when they hear the term.

It would probably be hard for a station using an 80's or 90's gold format to simply call themselves an "oldies" station without some sort of qualifier. It wouldn't be credible, even if it is technically true.

2. In Los Angeles, where the market is over 70% ethnic, only 4 of the top 10 stations use "anglo-based" formats; KIIS at #2 (though it's debatable whether or not the CHR format itself is "anglo-based"), KFI at #3, KROQ at #7, and KRTH at #10 (which has been and is still oldies).

It is safe to say that none of these stations would be top 10 unless there was a decent percentage of non-whites in their listening audience as well.

It may be a challenge, long term. Since there are more affluent whites, they may be more susceptible to going the iPod/satellite route than minorities.

3. No, but the iPod/satellite/wi-fi competition for ears will only intensify.

4. Not very much. Esp in highly-transient markets like Washington DC.

How may people there still remember the original WHFS, or the WAVA/Q-107 CHR feud in the 80's? That's some serious heritage right there, but very few remember. Or even care.

5. I don't think I'll change my answer. Though it could change in another 10 years or so.

6. I don't really know anything. I'm just rambling.

Bob Campbell · Post by **Bob Campbell** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:04 pm

Well, this is all way too complex for me. But, programming an Oldies station that is the hottest in the market right now, here's what Oldies now is.

Roughly 64-82 and preparing to move forward each year. The traditional 50's 60's Oldies format is going the way of Music of Your Life.
I'm not knocking the quality of product, just the facts of life in a 25-54 world.
If you've looked at what CBS is playing, they're going well into the 80's with Springsteen, Deniece Williams and a bunch of others. If you don't have Mediabase, I'll gladly forward their first day hour by hour music.
What we've done here with the format is try to "youthen"(my owner's word) it up. The previous Oldies station in the market had an average listener age over 50. We'd like to dial it back to 45, possibly a couple years younger down the road. So far it's working just like we expected. That's also what's happening for many of the Oldies stations that are doing well right now. And, of course, the term Oldies is sequeing into Classic Hits. Not because of the audience as much as the agencies.
What this all means is, in 10 years we'll be edging into the 90's most likely. The audience will age out and away from the format and the new ones will age in. I can't wait for Stone Temple Pilots on an Oldies station.

Hoosier Daddy · Post by **Hoosier Daddy** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:19 pm

Back in the early 80s, a former PD remarked that everything is an "Oldie" eventually. I laughed, thinking about the market's fledgling MOYL station playing Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin, and said something like "So, in other words, KISS and the Bay City Rollers will be on an Oldies station someday??!?!"

Goddamn. Here we are.

Dr. Whiplash · Post by **Dr. Whiplash** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:48 pm

Hoosier Daddy wrote:Goddamn. Here we are.

Yes. And my damn arthritis is bothering me.

ABC's "Oldies Radio" format has been subtly shifting as Bob described and just recently began uttering the words "classic rock" in their liners.

Ten years ago I couldn't stand that format but now... What were we talking about? I need to lie down.

cgarison · Post by **cgarison** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 pm

WOOHOO!!!!!!

Damn shame that the Sopranos are off the air. the last two seasons sucked without WCBS in the background as part of the sound track.

And for all of those debating what "Oldies" means in radio, the concept has not changed here in Philly for the last 10 years. WCBS' sister station WOUL-FM here in Philly did not waiver on the oldies format which has a low concentration of 60's California rock and a higher concentration of Motown and Philly soul.

Now back to WCBS prior to becoming the Jacked-off failure. It was a lovely, beautiful trainwreck of a format. Sunday afternoons included a huge array of great music ranging from the hits from the 50's, 60's, 70's & 80's. Truly great music. And in the evenings, WCBS had wonderful shows about prominent artist in music and how they impacted music. Great radio and I am glad it is back.