Here comes the translators!

[Force Commander]

The last item on the FCC release about the agenda topics of the 9/25/08 meeting coming up reads:

Amendment of the FM Broadcast Translator Stations’ Service and Eligibility Rules - Commission considers a Report and Order permitting AM stations to use FM translator stations on a “fill-in” basis.

Rumors have it the FCC will pass a rule change to permanently change the regulation and allow AM's to rebroadcast on FM translators at this meeting. It will be very interesting to see how these rules pan out. It is all but certain the stations that have STA's already will be permanently granted in some way. You almost think they will have to solve the 2003 Great Translator Invasion at the same meeting or find some way around all those apps. clogging up the system. I guess we'll know Thursday.

I will be very interested in Hoosier Daddy's thoughts and analysis. As someone against translators he should be able to find the "devil in the details" that the rest of us might miss.

link to the release:

http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily ... 5219A1.doc

First article I have seen on it:

http://www.rbr.com/media-news/washingto ... eting.html

[Force Commander]

Do you know how many AM's are doing this currently in WVA or the border states? I am only aware of WPRT-AM Prestonsburg KY.

[Dave Harman]

and WKAZ-AM 680 Charleston (95.3).

[Force Commander]

Forgive my poor memory but I am thinking there was at one time a 50,000 watts days signal with a low night pattern in Charleston. Radio Locator shows no such thing now. Am I crazy (don't answer that) and not remembering correctly? Sorry to hijack my own thread but..........

[genlock]

Yes, once upon a time.

[AmpedNow]

WWNR 620 Beckley also on 101.1

[sportsvoice]

I thought the solution to the "Great Translator Invasion" was to impose a 10 application limit (similar to what they did with the last NCE window).

[Force Commander]

I thought the solution to the "Great Translator Invasion" was to impose a 10 application limit (similar to what they did with the last NCE window).

It was, but there almost immediately a lawsuit filed by the Invaders and FCC folded pending "further review". That is the last I saw of it. I would not be totally surprised to see the FCC grant apps. under the condition that an AM would file with them to do an immediate transfer of control to the AM station upon grant. The AM would basically buy the translator from the invader with the FCC not standing in the way. That would clear several of these without being held in court for a decade or more. If the FCC doesn't finish dealing with the invasion issue, any rule change will not be able to help very many stations.

[genlock]

Do these "translators" have to pick up their am station by direct (off-air) means?

[Cameron]

Do these "translators" have to pick up their am station by direct (off-air) means?

Signal Delivery to the Translator. Generally, a primary FM (AM) station's signal is simply received at the fill-in translator's site, boosted in strength, and reradiated on the assigned translator frequency. However, a fill-in translator may also receive a primary station's signal via any terrestrial transmission facility, including (but not limited to) microwave, phone company circuits, and dedicated fiber optic cable. Aural intercity relay frequencies may also be used on a secondary basis (i.e., the use of the frequency would neither cause interference to or preclude use of the frequency by full service radio broadcast stations) after coordination with local frequency coordinating committees, or local broadcast users in the absence of a coordinating committee. A relay through another translator station is only acceptable if the intermediate translator provides a signal to a populated area. See 47 CFR Sections 74.1231(b) and (c)).

[Force Commander]

Do these "translators" have to pick up their am station by direct (off-air) means?

No, AM's can feed programming to translators by most any means available. The idea is they fill in the day pattern for stations that go directional or severely lower power and lost primary coverage at night. The translator will often times be located in another area far enough away from the AM transmission system that it cannot receive a off air signal at night, hence the need.

Yea, what Cameron said!

[genlock]

OK, thanks.
I was wondering about night time interference, buzz and what happens when the am fails and goes off the air.

[Cameron]

OK, thanks.
I was wondering about night time interference, buzz and what happens when the am fails and goes off the air.

Now, technically, here's where it gets interesting.
Fill-in translators are currently required to drop their carrier within a certian time-limitation when their primary station's carrier is off-the-air.
Three-minute rule, I believe.
I'll re-check that.

The transmitter shall also be equipped with suitable automatic
circuits which will place it in a nonradiating condition in the absence
of a signal on the input channel.

In its purest-form "signal" was initially meant to be "carrier". If it is fed via wireline, fiber, ect. - one should make a prevision to relay that "dropped carrier" information to the translator.

Well....Sec. 74.1234...kinda' leaves it open as to how long the signal on the input channel has to be absent. That explains the multiple time-limit options on Crown transmitters configured for translators. I'd say the three-minute rule would be one's best-bet.

[Force Commander]

OK, thanks.
I was wondering about night time interference, buzz and what happens when the am fails and goes off the air.

Now, technically, here's where it gets interesting.
Fill-in translators are currently required to drop their carrier within a certian time-limitation when their primary station's carrier is off-the-air.
Three-minute rule, I believe.
I'll re-check that.

We'll see what Thursday brings, but I am told there is no such limit for at this time for FM translators on AM's currently using STA authority. I hope it stays that way.

[Cameron]

We'll see what Thursday brings, but I am told there is no such limit for at this time for FM translators on AM's currently using STA authority. I hope it stays that way.

Your lawyer and the courrier services to the Commission don't.

[Force Commander]

We'll see what Thursday brings, but I am told there is no such limit for at this time for FM translators on AM's currently using STA authority. I hope it stays that way.

Your lawyer and the courrier services to the Commission don't.

Why? Are they hoping for more money for multiple silent authority filings?

[David Paleg]

Forgive my poor memory but I am thinking there was at one time a 50,000 watts days signal with a low night pattern in Charleston. Radio Locator shows no such thing now. Am I crazy (don't answer that) and not remembering correctly? Sorry to hijack my own thread but..........

Back in the 70's when I worked at WCAW AM 680 when it was a country station, it was 50,000 W day, 500 W night, 1000 W from 6:00 am to FCC's assigned times for sunrise. Who did the FCC fine if sunrise was not on time? The tower for them and WVAF was on the hill across from Morris Harvey College, now Univ of Chas.

[Dave Harman]

It was 50k directional back in those days. I'd like to see what the pattern was, to make a comparison between the 50k directional and the current 10k omni-directional.

[AmpedNow]

Funny thing about the WWNR translator... You can hear it loud and clear on top of Sewell Mountain, about 30 miles away, but you can't hear it in most of Beckley.

[Dr. Whiplash]

It was 50k directional back in those days. I'd like to see what the pattern was, to make a comparison between the 50k directional and the current 10k omni-directional.

That 50k signal really punched into SE Ohio - Athens, Marietta, the Other Logan. The current 10K omni is considerably weaker than WCHS up here and I've often wondered why. (BTW, 'CHS was listenable in Westerville OH last week.)