Global warming going amok?

[Force Commander]

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

THE JERUSALEM POST Dec. 4, 2007

In a campaign that has spread like wildfire across the Internet, a group of Israeli environmentalists is encouraging Jews around the world to light at least one less candle this Hanukka to help the environment.

The founders of the Green Hanukkia campaign found that every candle that burns completely produces 15 grams of carbon dioxide. If an estimated one million Israeli households light for eight days, they said, it would do significant damage to the atmosphere.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull

[The People's DJ]

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

No. In fact if I can find it I'll edit this post but if you're reading this post right now, you're adding to the global warming myth. Yup. Some jackoffs in Europe studied the affects of internet usage on global warming.

[David Paleg]

Some jackoffs in Europe studied the affects of internet usage on global warming.

That was probably from viewing pron.

[Bob Campbell]

Here's the thing about global warming. It's either real (which the overwhelming majority of scientists say), or it's not (which mostly right wing talk show hosts say).
If it's real, we have to do something about it...now.
If it's not real, there is no harm in doing something about it.
The number of jobs to be created in various energy efficiency, alternative energy source, and warming abatement industries is enormous. It's a win win for the the environment and the economy.

[Arp2]

Here's the thing about global warming. It's either real (which the overwhelming majority of scientists say)...

True only if you alter it to say "...majority of scientists cited by liberal, socialist, and communist politicians and dictators and scientists threatened by their employers desperate for gubmint grants from the aforementioned say..."

...or it's not (which mostly right wing talk show hosts say).

True only if you add "...and plenty of other scientists say, especially those independent of the above and free to speak what the actual, provable, certain evidence says."

If it's real, we have to do something about it...now.

Nope.

If it's not real, there is no harm in doing something about it.

You don't -- and can't -- know that, and neither can your so-called "majority" of so-called "scientists." Even the most intelligent are completely incapable of actually accurately even figuring out what, if anything at all, is happening, let alone determining causes and effects.

The number of jobs to be created in various energy efficiency, alternative energy source, and warming abatement industries is enormous. It's a win win for the the environment and the economy.

False. Wrong. False. Wrong. Period.

The people who so foolishly attempt to claim this completely disregard all the jobs (and maybe even industries) lost to such utterly unnecessary spending!

Money doesn't just vanish (except when a gubmint literally makes it disappear); it goes to people and places who buy things and invest in things. The money taxed, confiscated, and stolen for these get-lefties-rich-quick schemes would be money that would come out of all existing companies and consumers, and all existing companies (say, broadcasters and their advertisers, for example) and consumers (say, your listeners and the customers of your advertisers, for example) would suffer extraordinarily.

And, all the while, China and India (the real "big polluters," if that even really matters) would just say, "All y'all go f--- yourselves....ain't nothin' you can do about it. Oh, and give us all your industries and the service jobs your companies can no longer afford as you do."

I am quite confident that those who believe the current hype and fear-mongering will be looked upon like those who believed the "War Of The Worlds" broadcast was real. The only area where I feel the need to hope is that that occurs before we've lost all our economic strength and personal and free-market freedoms and liberties and all our best people and their families have moved to Dubai, Hong Kong, and Singapore.

[Bob Campbell]

Arp, paradigms change. 150 years ago, would you have been there decrying the disaster that would befall industry if we switched to assembly line techniques, stopped using draft animals and brute force labor? It's the old buggy whip argument. Used to be a huge industry. Just like the shift from a manufacturing to a service society. Jobs lost in one area are more than replaced by jobs created under the new paradigm. The world changes. It's changing again. We can lead or get left behind.

And the stuff about scientists, that's just funny.
Does that mean you also think the earth is only 5000 years old?

[genlock]

We are moving out of the last ice age.
The whole thing is cyclic.
Greenland?
It's the sun, stupid.

[Bob Campbell]

Oh if only there'd been any significant change in the sun's output. Unfortunately, no. One variable in the last 300 years, peoplesssss.
When Wilmington is under water will you guys at least admit the possibility of human influenced global warming?
By the way, even if global warming is a "myth", should we just ignore the water when it starts lapping at the Lincoln Memorial?

[nuggie99]

The number of jobs to be created in various energy efficiency, alternative energy source, and warming abatement industries is enormous. It's a win win for the the environment and the economy.

Yes, but most "environmentalists" hate those, too. You can't have a wind farm, bio-diesel and corn likker take up farm land better used for food, nuclear (or nucular, take your pick) is bad too, etc.

[Bob Campbell]

Well, I'm an environmentalist and I like all those things. Nuclear especially. Or, should that be "nucular"?

[genlock]

The sun seems to have cycles every 22 years,
The sun, being very big, does not have to vary a lot to have a big difference.
The environmentalists panic over the least little thing, blow it out of proportion and then justify it with wild theories. The enviros are like a cult religion, with strange rituals and tinfoil hats. The political end of this has more to do with money for grants than anything else.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Bob,

Stop talking facts and logic. There are Republicans on this board.

[nuggie99]

Here's an article about a wind farm
Environmentalists sue to stop turbines

[genlock]

Enviro-wackos were alarmed about 30 years ago about an impending ice age. If we had listened to them then, we would have spread soot or coal dust all over the polar regions. You know one tree-hugger said that what we need to cool the planet is more, yes more, Hydrocarbons in the air to reflect the sunlight back to the sky. Hooray for coal fired power plants, save us with coal. Wind power, no, Kills birdies. Hydro power, no, fishies have to swim freee. Nuke power, no, another chernobyl might happen. The only solution the enviro-wackos have found is to tax the shit out of all Americans. Not the Chineese or the Indians (wog) or the africans or the russians or the south americans or the arabs. Just tax the Americans.

[Bob Campbell]

See, the darn thing about science is that it must deal with observable facts. Like the cooling thing, which was actually more like 60 years ago, and was based on observations that were found to be inaccurate. So it was dropped. The sun cycles mentioned above have to do with sunspot activity and not radiational output. Global temperatures have been on an uninterrupted upswing for the last 150 years, with the last 50 years seeing a drastic increase in the speed of warming, the last 10 even more.

Again, if we prepare and we're wrong, we have a cleaner planet, renewable energy, less lung disease, healthier children, and a step up on the rest of the world in 21st century industry. If we're right, well, there's that whole saving the world thing.
Again, no reason NOT to do it.

[Force Commander]

See, the darn thing about science is that it must deal with observable facts. Like the cooling thing, which was actually more like 60 years ago, and was based on observations that were found to be inaccurate. So it was dropped. The sun cycles mentioned above have to do with sunspot activity and not radiational output. Global temperatures have been on an uninterrupted upswing for the last 150 years, with the last 50 years seeing a drastic increase in the speed of warming, the last 10 even more.

A couple of things, there was talk of planetary cooling through the 1970's. Remember the biggest episode of the Leonard Nimoy hosted "In Search Of"? A "groundbreaking" presentation on the coming of the next iceage! This was one of many documentaries, articles, etc. on the subject.

The temps have not been on an uninterrupted upswing. The 1930's era dustbowl was warmer than now, we cooled off significantly after that period. Hence the global cooling concerns that hit the high note in the media in the 70's. The current discussion goes back and forth (not near all science agrees with the current warming theory) as to whether this is a typical planetary cycle, or a real man made change.

[Bob Campbell]

Well, if we're basing our assumptions on "In Search Of", I must remind you, that was a tv show, not reality.
The dust bowl year "facts" are not. The dust bowl is not the planet as a whole.
While any single year may trend lower in temperature, the average for the planet is on an uninterrupted upswing.
But I will check this week's "Amazing Race" to see if they've updated any of the "In Search Of" info.

And still, if we're right, we save the world. If we're wrong, better planet.

ps "In Search Of" was a documentary like "The Colbert Report" is a news show.

[Bob Campbell]

This just in from CNN; rising need for alternative fuels is causing skyrocketing beer prices in Germany.

I TAKE IT ALL BACK!! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GLOBAL WARMING!! WE HAVE PLENTY OF OIL!! ALTERNATIVE FUELS ARE A FRAUD!!

SAVE THE BEERS.

[Scott Reppert]

Scientists vs. Right Wing Talk Show Hosts? Who's right? Well, Johnny, they both are!!

If Global Warming is real, it is something that is supposed to happen. If it is not real, it is something that was cooked up by a bunch of folks lead by a guy that claims he invented the internet in the first place...

[Force Commander]

Well, if we're basing our assumptions on "In Search Of", I must remind you, that was a tv show, not reality.
The dust bowl year "facts" are not. The dust bowl is not the planet as a whole.
While any single year may trend lower in temperature, the average for the planet is on an uninterrupted upswing.
But I will check this week's "Amazing Race" to see if they've updated any of the "In Search Of" info.

And still, if we're right, we save the world. If we're wrong, better planet.

ps "In Search Of" was a documentary like "The Colbert Report" is a news show.

I understand your points on In Search Of. I was not trying to take it as research fact. Just as an example of the typical media type that was around in the 1970's. You had mentioned in an earlier posting that the next ice age stuff was 60 years ago. I felt we needed a reminder that it was much sooner than that as well.

Weather data does not suggest an uninterrupted upswing since we have kept records (a little over 100 years), and even much of those records may are not accurate.

http://www.surfacestations.org/

http://www.surfacestations.org/about.htm

Here are examples of poor weather stations, notice the one toward the bottom of the page from Hopkinsville, KY

http://www.surfacestations.org/odd_sites.htm

Not trying to start a flame war, but there is a lot more there than is being told on the mainstream big media.