Attention rock PDs!

[Lee]

I get excited for new music that I know is going to excite my listeners -- like new AC/DC, Metallica, and Guns 'N Roses. And for that, I'm very excited for this new song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nieNQNUoS1o

That is a hit.

That's an abomination. Nickelback blows.

Poison -- Fallen Angel

Unpopular and unfamiliar.


FireHouse-- Don't Treat Me Bad

Unpopular and unfamiliar.


Def Leppard -- Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad (granted, it came out in 91...)

Unpopular and unfamiliar.

You have GOT to be kidding me. Dude, I am in your target demo and those are three of my favorite songs from those respective artists.

THANK YOU!

[Jay Nunley]

I get excited for new music that I know is going to excite my listeners -- like new AC/DC, Metallica, and Guns 'N Roses. And for that, I'm very excited for this new song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nieNQNUoS1o

That is a hit.

That's an abomination. Nickelback blows.

Poison -- Fallen Angel

Unpopular and unfamiliar.




FireHouse-- Don't Treat Me Bad

Unpopular and unfamiliar.


Def Leppard -- Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad (granted, it came out in 91...)

Unpopular and unfamiliar.

You have GOT to be kidding me. Dude, I am in your target demo and those are three of my favorite songs from those respective artists.

Jay Nunley wrote:
I asked for these examples so we could be specific instead of talking in generalities.


KISS -- Beth

Not a primary cut, but does get some airplay.

It was KISS' most popular single until "Forever!"

Alice Cooper -- Only Women Bleed

Unpopular and unfamiliar.

How so? It was a Top 20 hit in 1975. One of his best known songs.

Three Dog Night -- Joy to the World

Not rock. Oldies.

Again, how so? I'm not sure what year the song was released. Late 60s-early 70s I assume. But some songs that are played on rock radio today were released around that same time. So what's "oldies" and "classic rock?" If that's the case, Zep should be played on oldies stations, too.

Poison -- Fallen Angel
FireHouse-- Don't Treat Me Bad
Def Leppard -- Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad (granted, it came out in 91...)

Unpopular and unfamiliar

All three songs were at least Top 20 songs in their respective heydays. And if your demo is 25-54, all 30 year olds and above should know these songs. Unpopular and unfamiliar according to who?

Cranberries -- Zombie
Oasis -- Wonderwall
Garbage -- Stupid Girl

All "alternative" titles that do not appeal to enough 25-54 males to warrant airplay on a station aimed at that demo.

Again, former Gen X'ers should know these songs...your demo, right? These songs were on ACTIVE ROCK charts in their respective heydays.

I'm not saying play all former rock chart toppers from the 70s, 80s, and 90s...throw a bone or two from time to time to break up the monotony.

There it is. The inevitable conclusion to this discussion which has been done to death on this board and everywhere else for that matter.

Once again, chart position "back when" has no bearing on the popularity or the familiarity of a title today.

Once again, just because you (and/or) the few people you know (and I don't care if you know 6000 people) like something or are familiar with it doesn't mean the majority of people have the same taste or familiarity. You cannot extrapolate music taste from yourself to the wider world.

Once again, you say that stations play songs every two hours, never play any depth tracks (throwing a bone or two as you say), and haven't taken the time to find out what the target demo wants (which is what you are advocating doing while accusing stations of doing it) or what they think is safe. None of those things are true. They are your perception only.

Once again, you ignore the reality of how most people (not audiophiles and radio nerds) use radio and why. At the same time you ignore how ratings work and what must be done to increase or maintain ratings.

I've been staying out of this discussion for a few go 'rounds just because I was tired of it. I think we got deeper this time, but it turns out to be the same discussion with the same sides and the same non-conclusion at the end.

It was certainly more fun this time than the last few. I'm willing to discuss it further if you guys want, but no matter what data, reasoning, or proof I show it won't change your mind. It wouldn't have changed my mind either before I learned harsh lessons about what happens when you program a station to be musically diverse or "cool" as opposed to profitable.



Next time, we can all save a lot of effort...


Group 1

You guys play the same songs too much.


Group 2

No, we don't.

[Big Media]

I doubt Nickelback fans even know how to fill out a diary. So why catering to them?

Our next Death to Nickelback thread will post in approximately 90 days. Thank you.

[Nate G]

I get excited for new music that I know is going to excite my listeners -- like new AC/DC, Metallica, and Guns 'N Roses. And for that, I'm very excited for this new song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nieNQNUoS1o

That is a hit.

I have to agree with those of you that don't like Nickelback, I'm not crazy about them, either. But I have to agree with Reeves, that's a hit!!

[AmpedNow]

I'm certainly open to learning how radio is programmed. And why some songs work and some don't.

I acknowledge that I'm a music/tech nerd and listen to radio very atypically. I also acknowledge that my format of choice blows chunks around here to most people.

I just put my 2 cents in the pot.

[Dave Loudin]

Are these titles you are talking about still popular today? I don't care if they were hits yesterday. Are they still hits today? Please give me three examples of songs from each era that should be played that are not.

70's
KISS -- Beth
Alice Cooper -- Only Women Bleed
Three Dog Night -- Joy to the World

AAAAHHHH! AAAAHHH! AAAAAAHHHH!

Beth has to be the WORST KISS song, ever. I despise that Alice Cooper track only slightly less. Three Dog Night is pure pop. None of these songs would have been played by WDVE back in the day.

[Bob Campbell]

Listen to Nunley, he is wise. Except for not knowing shit about the greatest band ever, the Beatles. Who were technically and musically revolutionary. Their roots show in everything you hear on pop, rock and alt radio today. And on everybody's i-pod, mp3 player, sat radio, internet radio, or college station.

Nirvana, now they sucked.

[Lee]

I get excited for new music that I know is going to excite my listeners -- like new AC/DC, Metallica, and Guns 'N Roses. And for that, I'm very excited for this new song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nieNQNUoS1o

That is a hit.

That's an abomination. Nickelback blows.

Poison -- Fallen Angel

Unpopular and unfamiliar.




FireHouse-- Don't Treat Me Bad

Unpopular and unfamiliar.


Def Leppard -- Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad (granted, it came out in 91...)

Unpopular and unfamiliar.

You have GOT to be kidding me. Dude, I am in your target demo and those are three of my favorite songs from those respective artists.

Jay Nunley wrote:
I asked for these examples so we could be specific instead of talking in generalities.


KISS -- Beth

Not a primary cut, but does get some airplay.

It was KISS' most popular single until "Forever!"

Alice Cooper -- Only Women Bleed

Unpopular and unfamiliar.

How so? It was a Top 20 hit in 1975. One of his best known songs.

Three Dog Night -- Joy to the World

Not rock. Oldies.

Again, how so? I'm not sure what year the song was released. Late 60s-early 70s I assume. But some songs that are played on rock radio today were released around that same time. So what's "oldies" and "classic rock?" If that's the case, Zep should be played on oldies stations, too.

Poison -- Fallen Angel
FireHouse-- Don't Treat Me Bad
Def Leppard -- Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad (granted, it came out in 91...)

Unpopular and unfamiliar

All three songs were at least Top 20 songs in their respective heydays. And if your demo is 25-54, all 30 year olds and above should know these songs. Unpopular and unfamiliar according to who?

Cranberries -- Zombie
Oasis -- Wonderwall
Garbage -- Stupid Girl

All "alternative" titles that do not appeal to enough 25-54 males to warrant airplay on a station aimed at that demo.

Again, former Gen X'ers should know these songs...your demo, right? These songs were on ACTIVE ROCK charts in their respective heydays.

I'm not saying play all former rock chart toppers from the 70s, 80s, and 90s...throw a bone or two from time to time to break up the monotony.

There it is. The inevitable conclusion to this discussion which has been done to death on this board and everywhere else for that matter.

Once again, chart position "back when" has no bearing on the popularity or the familiarity of a title today.

Once again, just because you (and/or) the few people you know (and I don't care if you know 6000 people) like something or are familiar with it doesn't mean the majority of people have the same taste or familiarity. You cannot extrapolate music taste from yourself to the wider world.

Once again, you say that stations play songs every two hours, never play any depth tracks (throwing a bone or two as you say), and haven't taken the time to find out what the target demo wants (which is what you are advocating doing while accusing stations of doing it) or what they think is safe. None of those things are true. They are your perception only.

Once again, you ignore the reality of how most people (not audiophiles and radio nerds) use radio and why. At the same time you ignore how ratings work and what must be done to increase or maintain ratings.

I've been staying out of this discussion for a few go 'rounds just because I was tired of it. I think we got deeper this time, but it turns out to be the same discussion with the same sides and the same non-conclusion at the end.

It was certainly more fun this time than the last few. I'm willing to discuss it further if you guys want, but no matter what data, reasoning, or proof I show it won't change your mind. It wouldn't have changed my mind either before I learned harsh lessons about what happens when you program a station to be musically diverse or "cool" as opposed to profitable.



Next time, we can all save a lot of effort...


Group 1

You guys play the same songs too much.


Group 2

No, we don't.

Alrighty then!

Today, I turned on the radio to ROCK STATION #1, and I heard Aerosmith's "Walk This Way"...a few hours later, I heard "Dream On." I won't say the name of the station to avoid being nipped on the ankles by it's piranhas. Why play the same band in such a short time frame?

I turned it over to ROCK STATION #2, I heard Nickelcrack's "Rockstar" and their new single called, "Mutt Lange Produced Our New Album So You Know It's Gonna Sound Like Def Leppard in the 80s" in the same two hour time frame. Again, same band, different song.

Now, onto ROCK STATION #3, I heard AC/DC's "Rock 'n Roll Train" within two hours on the same station. It's a great song, but just like with eating, drinking, and masturbating...moderation is key!

The same bands with different songs routine is not "mixing it up", it's oversaturation of a "popular" band. The same song over and over is not giving the people what they want, it's overkill. There's plenty of other bands out there with current and former hits that can be played. Y'all have a wealth of songs to choose from...use it!

[Lee]

Listen to Nunley, he is wise. Except for not knowing shit about the greatest band ever, the Beatles. Who were technically and musically revolutionary. Their roots show in everything you hear on pop, rock and alt radio today. And on everybody's i-pod, mp3 player, sat radio, internet radio, or college station.

Nirvana, now they sucked.

True dat!

[genlock]

The Beatles were over-rated.

[Swing'n Dick]

Rock is dead.

With these ethereal hardships we face with the economy, plus RIAA committing suicide and having the worst industry-wide sales ever, year after year...


AC/DC -Black Ice - Platinum in two weeks in the US. As of last week, 5.3 million albums sold world wide. 10 MILLION copies have been pressed and an estimated 3.5 million will be sold in the U.S. by Jan. 1st, 09.
***AC/DC does not do digital sales.

Metallica - Death Magnetic - Platinum in two weeks in the U.S. I don't have the global sales data for this one at this time.

GNR - Chinese Democracy - in my professional opinion, will fly off the shelves like nothing ever has before. And to top it off, it's fuckin genius. It will appeal to a very broad demo, and in Europe, it will be the "Seconding Coming".

Two Rap acts, and Coldplay are the only others to come close to AC/DC's numbers in 2008. "Black Ice" was released Oct. 20th.


You can thank me later for the show prep. All your base are belong to me.

[Jet Black]

Everything Jay says is true about radio, but every time I hear The Electric Lunch on WDVE, I have to wonder, what gives?

[Arp2]

Hire the prettiest, metrosexiest guys who can play three chords, hire some songwriters...VIOLA! You have Nickelback!

That's a CELLO!!!

No, no....it's a viola. Look at the small stand, the shoulder rest (not the pointy floor thing), and the short neck....it's a viola. Besides, it's from some school's website via Google image search....two such things couldn't be wrong, could they??

"Viola" is one my "inside joke words" that I use from time to time.

SHUT UP!

I like "voila," myself....!

By the way, I'm with Jay. And I'm not even a rock guy. Those 70s examples have "a cringe cringing because its cringe's cringe is cringing" written all over them, the 80s ones are too "retro"-y "hit"-y, and the 90s ones are definitely alterna-Hot-AC-ish.

I know, I know....I should cut back on the technical terms and official jargon!

It does, however, bring up the issues of formats painting themselves into corners when current heavy users (who might be considered needed to survive) move through and right on out of what was the "window" and those in the window (if it's stayed in the same place) are defining things in a very different way. But I don't think that's what's happening here....

[Lee]

GNR - Chinese Democracy - in my professional opinion, will fly off the shelves like nothing ever has before. And to top it off, it's fuckin genius. It will appeal to a very broad demo, and in Europe, it will be the "Seconding Coming".

I agree 100%!

With the leaks and the leaks that were not leaks but turned out to be leaks anyway, THIS is what a rock album should be. Every song I have heard is just.........mind blowing.

Try "Better" or "Catcher in the Rye" for starters.

My pre-order is already in!

Plus, more and more bands are jumping on the "Wal-Mart" or "Best Buy" only bandwagon to make more bank. Look for Amazon.com to follow suit if they haven't already.

Say what you will about Wal-Mart, the way they handled new releases by The Eagles, Journey, and AC/DC was genius. All three bands had pretty big sales.

[Dave Allen]

Is anyone besides me amazed at how this smart thread took off? Amazing, isn't it..and somehow without Nick Scott or any mention of Wheeling?

[Arp2]

You cannot extrapolate music taste from yourself to the wider world.

...and we must acknowledge that anew and be humble about it almost daily. We will do it....it will happen. The one good thing about it is that we get to decide whether we'll be voluntarily or involuntarily so humbled.


I just recently absolutely fell in love with a song....its musical style, vocal style, production, and lyrics are all perfect, and it perfectly fills a big hole in stations' playlists. It now appears it'll be lucky to get much into the top 30, and that's in a format that typically gives real airplay to fewer than 20. Now, I've either been humbled yet again or have picked really early a top 5 that'll peak next March or so...we'll have to see if the label pushes it again in January or makes its efforts on another cut......

[Lee]

You cannot extrapolate music taste from yourself to the wider world.

...and we must acknowledge that anew and be humble about it almost daily. We will do it....it will happen. The one good thing about it is that we get to decide whether we'll be voluntarily or involuntarily so humbled.


I just recently absolutely fell in love with a song....its musical style, vocal style, production, and lyrics are all perfect, and it perfectly fills a big hole in stations' playlists. It now appears it'll be lucky to get much into the top 30, and that's in a format that typically gives real airplay to fewer than 20. Now, I've either been humbled yet again or have picked really early a top 5 that'll peak next March or so...we'll have to see if the label pushes it again in January or makes its efforts on another cut......

Admit it, Arp. It's a Taylor Swift song, eh?

The thing is, I can press mute on the tube and enjoy the videos...

Is anyone besides me amazed at how this smart thread took off? Amazing, isn't it..and somehow without Nick Scott or any mention of Wheeling?

Thanks, Dave. You just hexed this thread!

Speaking of crossover songs, that new Hinder ballad will likely crossover and become more annoying. Just like "Lips of an Angel" did.

Speaking of annoying things in music. Is anyone else sick and tired of how poppy country music is nowadays? Most of the artists look like boy-band rejects. I'm a metalhead, but some of the "alt" country is freakin' fantastic! Check out Shooter Jennings, or my favorite, Hank III:



Makes Rascal Flatts look like Rick Astley, eh? Not much of a stretch, but still...

[Big Media]

Man... lots of good stuff here. Especially for a yarn that started as a semi-joke---I am not joking about challenging the license of any radio station who is STILL PLAYING ROCKSTAR. This is NOT serving in the interest of the public and I will have your license.

I know Jay is technically correct because he is, after all, a radio programming genius. But I digress. I still know in my heart that if Rockstar was instantly dropped by every station in the country, no one would care.


Anyhoo, regarding having an exclusive outlet for your CD, that is marketing genius as you have a partner who is "all in" on your album and has a big economic interest in ensuring its success.

Also, the Guns N Roses release will outsell every previous GNR album combined. How's that for a prediction.

Taylor Swift's album is NOT as good as her first. However, this is almost always the case with a sophomore release anyway so no worries. I do really like her new single and "White Horse," which was featured on a Gray's Anatomy episode. That's a coveted as being featured on 90210 in its prime (the old 90210) or Dawson's Creek in the first or second season.

[fearpeddler]

Couple bands I can pull off the top of my mind atm (its a little hazy in there this evenin) would be Rage against the machine and primus, both had alot of hits, especially rage, i'm suprised to not hear either on occasion, or ministry even. Weezer had a pile of hits, as did White Zombie.. I love me sum metal too but I know none of it would be valid to this conversation..


It amazes me that people actually like the new GnR track, its so overproduced it makes britney spears seem like a garage band to me.. As does the new metallica to my ears. That AC/DC is sum good shit though, I'll ask every PD that reads this to please not wear out a good song I learn alot every time one of these conversations break out so keep goin, theres 2 more cents to throw on the pile, I think its all been said before though.

[Rock]

Rock is dead.

Dude, I'm here!