Chaos is coming to the FM dial

[engineer]

This is chaos. Now the analog will suffer in many markets. All of this for less than .01% of total listeners who have HD radios.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a ... 6079A1.doc

[AmpedNow]

Fire em up. Let's see what happens.

It won't make much difference in WV since there are very few HD stations.

[Mike]

Dumb move. I bet they next move to abolish analog broadcasting like they did with TV. Death of radio will follow.

[engineer]

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[sportsvoice]

Pardon me while I crank modulation to 150%. I'll get the same results.

[engineer]

Pardon me while I crank modulation to 150%. I'll get the same results.

Yes, a much "wider" carrier deviation is another option if you have no available headroom. From another board: What is funny is the FCC requires a very detailed individual study to determine if an analog service can increase power. For this, no individual studies, just broad studies from the manufacturer (ibiquity) and of course, NPR labs.

[Ace Purple]

Has the 10% analog strength been tested at all for HD Radio yet? It would surprise me for them to launch it without any research being done on the possible impact.

[Hoosier Daddy]

If the NAB wants it, the NAB gets it.
Case closed.

[/FCC policy]

[engineer]

From another board; and from two of the best major market engineers you will ever meet:

Agreed....

As an egineer for a number of 1st and 2nd adjacent channel stations (some
of which are short spaced) IBOC's, this is a TERRIBLE decision and one
which will likely be the death knell for many in-market surburban stations
on 2nd adjacents and rim shots on 1st adjacents.

One of our stations lost about 10% of it's actual coverage, but 25% of
it's total listener reach as a result of a IBOC on a 1st adjacent. FCC did
nothing when prior owners complained.

MM

> This is the end of analog FM performance. Now the hiss of IBOC invades
> the FM dial. At -20 dBc when I tune an analog receiver across the
> Chicago FM dial the S meter registers the interstation IBOC carriers but
> in the speaker you hear what you believe is interstation hiss which are
> the 100's of IBOC carries. Bring this to - 10 dBc the infirngement into
> analog will be intererpeted as intersation hiss when its actually the
> invasion of IBOC carriers.
>
> Warren Shulz
> WLS Cgo

[AmpedNow]

Good discussion.

I'm not saying that this won't increase interference levels, but everytime I hear somebody complaining about HD or second-adjacents, I think of the following example... (I've been waiting to whip this one out for awhile ).

Exhibit A: Washington, DC

98.7 WMZQ

50kw @ 489'

CC owned




Two spots up the dial, we have WLZL (Peace be upon WHFS)

99.1 WLZL

45kw @ 515'

CBS owned




Finally, we have Hot 99.5

99.5 WIHT

22kw @ 751'

CC owned




The first thing I notice is we have 3 Bs well within each other's protected countours, who somehow managed to survive all of these years "stepping all over" each other. In all the years I lived in the area, my radios had no problem separating the three.

This proves to me that 2nd adjacents in the same market can coexist with proper engineering.

The second thing is that 2 of the 3 use HD. I'm not sure if 99.1 uses it now, but as of a year or so ago, they didn't.

Still, my radios never had interference issues.

The problem I have is the anti-HD crowd is so against HD that there are lots of misinformation and lies to the point that it's hard to know what to believe. These people's personal biases in many instances have clouded the real facts.

I'm not saying the iBiquity people are angels, but it's got to the point that the people seeking out honest information can't find any. The HD board over at R-I is a waste of time. The attack dogs come out every time someone posts a genuine question about HD or dares make a positive comment about it.

I think the interference issues on FM are a bit overblown. There have been many stations in large markets using HD for years with little issues.

Of course, there are exceptions. And I agree that nighttime AM is a mess. But at least on FM, the long-term trend is towards HD/digital.

And, let's imagine an all-digital FM band... How many of these interference issues would be self-correcting? HD can run in all-digital mode, and allows for seamless repeaters without the analog.

[cgarison]

My first thought when I read the title to the thread.

[Tom Taggart]

Presently the HD carriers are about 1/100th of the main carrier power, wait until the carrier goes to 1/10th main carrier before you conclude there will not be an interference issue.

And you are undoubtedly listening on a car radio. Try separating these stations with the typical table radio.

[Cameron]

(Looking around for his 12kw digital transmitter, 6-bay antenna, iso, and reject-loads). Fire 'em up. You want interference - I'll dish some out.

I think we should cater to the 17 HD radios in our market by paying massive entry-fees rather than those IP-based mobile users, anyway.
pfffttt...there's no future in that. Who's building-out wireless infastructure anyway?

[engineer]

Tom,

You are absolutely correct. Manual tuned clock and table radios will suffer the most. The IBOC people will then say we have to begin to replace those radios. There is a committee forming within the NAB to begin discussions of an analog termination date. 2020 has been rumored to be the date. Again, .01 percent of total listeners are hearing HD radio.

Presently the HD carriers are about 1/100th of the main carrier power, wait until the carrier goes to 1/10th main carrier before you conclude there will not be an interference issue.

And you are undoubtedly listening on a car radio. Try separating these stations with the typical table radio.

[Hoosier Daddy]

An analog sunset on the FM dial to save our precious proprietary IBOC.

And the other shoe drops.

It still amazes me that interference was (and still is) a **PARAMOUNT CONCERN** with 100 watt ERP low power FM stations, but it wasn't with 250 watt ERP translators, and it sure the hell isn't a concern with increasing the power of the buzzsaw IBOC transmitters ten fold.

What was that line the NAB used about how "you can't change the laws of physics"?

Fucking self-serving bastards.

[AmpedNow]

Any radio that gets overloaded to the second adjacent is a piece of shit that shouldn't be on the market anyway.

For the record, I listened mostly on car radios, but I also had stationary gpx and Realistic home stereos. Oh, and a $20 GE boombox. They all had little problem separating the 3.

Of course, this was in a pre-HD world.

As for the supposed 2020 analog cutoff, we all know it will happen eventually. If they mandated television, why would you think they would stop there?

[Tom Taggart]

Well, because somebody at an NAB meeting is going to stand up & tell these folks that they are ".........Nuts!!"

(Daddy, why is the Emperor walking around without any clothes?)